Wellness: A Key Foundation for the Practice of the Future #2 – Transcript
Wellness: A Key Foundation for the Practice of the Future 17 October 2023
Proudly sponsored by MLC Life Insurance
Ryan Watson 0:00
Thanks, Harry. Thanks, Tristan, for joining us today. Well, where are we coming from? Are yourself.
Harry Goldberg 0:06
I’m over in Singapore. Been here for about six weeks now another two weeks ago.
Ryan Watson 0:11
Okay, nice. And for those obviously I’m in Melbourne so it’s nice and cold. Tell us how warm and humid it is where you are hearing
Harry Goldberg 0:17
that you might see me throughout this conversation just wiping the sweat off my forehead. It’s about 28 It’s I think the high average highs around 3031 average around 2728 humidities no 169%. Now, it’s like 75 80% or so.
Ryan Watson 0:35
And what about yourself, Tristan
Tristan Scifo 0:36
I went right back to Singapore were in Germany at the moment for the winter, the three months in a little town called other in Eastern Germany.
Ryan Watson 0:45
Yeah. And if you don’t mind me asking you what specifically took you there?
Tristan Scifo 0:49
We come here every year we can we try and do three months here. And then I must back in Sydney, my wife got family over here. So we’re staying in the same region as my daughter’s cousins. And their best reason to get along so well. And my wife, sister and family, and we’re helping my parents in law migrate from the other side of Germany to this town so that everyone’s going to be in the same place over here. Little bit of that moving already. And it’s going really well.
Ryan Watson 1:16
Great. Fantastic. Well, a different, a little bit different, a little bit more interesting today in terms of where you guys are coming from as compared to myself here in Australia. So we might kick it off. You know, I’m I said to Harry, when we were talking earlier, I’m really interested in intrigued excited about today’s conversation, because when we did have a bit of a preamble, across the 15 minutes, Tristan knew warned me that we could go to any and all places, and there’s excitement around that. So today, I want to see, you know, obviously I’ve got a structure and a strategy. But I really want to also see where we end up into those conversations. So it’s always a good place to start. I’ve done my research, you know, what we’re looking today is, what role does wellbeing, but also this mindfulness piece in the mental health component play for clients of yours, and how do you draw on that? So if we can start at the start with you guys? What’s your journey been like to this point in terms of building your practice? And how have you got to where you are?
Yeah, ultra solid yourself.
Tristan Scifo 2:15
But the second half. So I’ve been advising for about four and a half years, when I started the business advisors in 2018. I always wanted to do coaching, and advice together. And having been at the ANP horizons, career changer program, which I know many listeners will be at least familiar with another great program for time, and they really facilitated exploration of how advice could be done, I was given the kind of the tools and a space to go through the entire advice process from prospecting, a very cold set of ANP leads a sheet of Tinder name, right through to every aspect of the SOA production and all the information, you do it all yourself. And obviously, it’s support and resources, but you’re forced to do everything, and I enjoyed it. But it got me thinking about every element of the process in detail as you would when you’re asked to do it. And it struck me upfront that this advice process needs to have coaching as it’s like it’s sidekick as his brother. And I shared that with a lot of the people in the community leadership and there was minor resonance and a lot of pushback. Most people said it can’t be done. And not realistic. It’s not profitable, especially not working with 23 year olds, they did not gonna make enough money. And to be honest, people weren’t wrong. It’s very hard work to bring wellbeing coaching to younger people who don’t have the assets just yet. And run it within the situation of a financial advice business with quite high cost margins and high compliance good. But I was committed still to this day. And I’m a believer that it can be done if it’s done smart. So I kicked off by bargraph years ago, and very early and knew I needed a partner couldn’t do this by myself. And that’s when I reached out on what was x y advisor at the time, and connected with Harry amongst a few others. And Harry joined towards the end of that year. And that was I guess how things started to evolve beyond just my own skill set and experience into something something larger.
Ryan Watson 4:13
Fantastic. And obviously a good segue, Harry, in terms of you joining the
Harry Goldberg 4:17
Yeah, so from my side i was i finished uni when I went to uni, I decided I don’t know what I’m going to do something around finance something about money and something about helping people just kind of make sense, and ended up going out pursuing financial advice. And I went down went down the path of trying to become a financial advisor with an eye. I started off in a small firm, it wasn’t quite the right fit for various reasons, which I’m sure many, many of the listeners who have been in smaller boutique firms can understand if there’s just not quite the right cultural fit. And I ended up deciding to go into main companies instead which are doing it so to go the product side before getting back towards advice just to understand another perspective because seemed like everything around the price was just from a product perspective. So let me understand that. And so I was in BT in Asgard first and then got involved in a whole bunch of different projects, which were there and then managed to work my way across into Westpac premium as an advisor assistant. And then I was around 26, when I was when I became a financial advisor, working with high net worth clients, Westpac premium, which was amazing, it was a very privileged time very a wonderful opportunity to be able to work with people who are typically much older than I was, but especially to be able to learn from my mentor at the time, had some somewhat similar frustrations around the corporate environment, in terms of how it was actually able to help clients in the way that he wanted to, and eventually chose to leave and we live together. But throughout that time, I started a personal development journey. My wife had a really challenging role, let’s just say, and without going into the details of it, I’m like, Well, I know all the answers, you gotta listen to me. And she wasn’t the sound like, well, then you gotta go to someone else. Because you’re just not listening to me. I was I was very obnoxious and quite arrogant at the time, let’s say. And she and I ended up saying, Well, how about this Tony Robbins events? Like, I’m not gonna go to the line, I said, Fine, I’ll come along with you. But I’m not gonna get anything out of it. I’m just going because I’m a loving husband. That’s the reason why, and that that event actually changed my life transformed entirely. I had a belief set of you live in you die. So what’s the point to like, short, make the most of it. And when I change that I recognize I’ve actually got to find ways to make the most of life as I started making all these changes within my own life. And then as a result of it, I had family and friends and colleagues and even clients start saying, Well, how are you? You’re different from the last time I saw you, you’re happier, you’re healthier, you got more energy, you’re more excited, you’re more passionate, you’re more focused, you know what you’re doing, like, what are you doing differently? Can you can you help me I want to do the same thing. And then I was able to say, well, great, I mean, this worked for me, maybe it’ll work for you, or this, I tried, but didn’t work for me. But maybe it will work for you. And a lot of my conversations with people became very naturally coaching conversations. And that was with the people who wanted to change. And then I started learning coaching, because I realized that other people don’t necessarily want to change, but you can inspire them to want to. And a lot of my client conversations became less about money, or more about life, and goals and aspirations, and then mindset, and perspective and purpose. And as a result of that I had, I had this burning desire to do work, not like not just the financial work with clients, I love the impact that financial advice makes on clients lives, it’s, it’s incredible, you’re literally able to give them a sense of certainty, by helping them change the what they’re doing with their money, where they’re putting it, how they’re investing it, having insurance, all these different things that you’re able to do with a client that really enhances their life and their experience. But there’s more to it. And when I think I joined. So I went to business with my previous mentor, that was my mentor at the time. He’s my previous business partner, and went to one of the security events as a first time outside of Westpac. And one of the other advisors like, oh, did you check out x y, you’re like, you’re young enough to kind of get involved in that group, go check them out. And I did, and it was a Facebook group. And Justin was like, Hey, I’ve, I’m looking for business partner, I do coaching and advice. I’m like, Hey, I’m really happy where I am, I’m not looking for anything new. But what you’re saying sounds amazing. Let’s just have a chat. And so those conversations became a friendship and eventually became a business partnership as well. I joined in with what Tristan it started with the premise, the premise of all of that, and alectris and expand more and what the development has been. But the premise of that was that there’s not much point in having a financial plan, unless you have a life plan. First, your financial plan is one of those segments within your life, that’s really important to have a plan, have a strategy for move, move towards something that’s really valuable and that you really want in your life. And it’s it’s kind of like one of the it’s the fuel that allows you to be doing all of the other things that you want to in life. But there are all of these other elements, which are really important too. And if you have, if you have that that amazing car that’s driving you where you want to be served on the analogies, if you have that car that’s driving you where you want to be, then you got to know where the destination is, you got to know what your milestones are. And you’ve got to know why you actually want to go in that destination and go in that direction.
Ryan Watson 9:26
Yeah, makes makes perfect. Makes perfect sense. And yeah, thank you for the thank you for the context. So I imagine Tristan, you put that call out which is what we now call ensemble. And yet Harry reply. Let me let me in on those comments that I imagined it was like from the start, there’s probably sparks going off in terms of you being in each other’s heads, understanding what we’re saying. Tell me a bit about that journey and how you built a trusted relationship and in terms of what the business is now.
Tristan Scifo 9:53
Yeah. Great question, Ryan. Well, Harry wasn’t the only one that reached out. There was actually a few other I really quality or guys, who some of which I’ve, I’ve kept good friendships with. And there was another dude who was like pole position. He was the most engaged with wanting to start in the business he he needed an exit from his employment situation he was getting bored and itchy. And he had big dreams. And Harry was a bit like, oh, yeah, look, I don’t need to move. But let’s catch up. So it was a very different tone what both Harry and I expected we just met up at Hyde Park near the city will reasonably close to each other at the time geographically. And we went for runs together. So very show social, Harry likes to test his friends. So he pushed me to see if I was coachable. And like, try and get me to push beyond my limits. And I was amicable up to roll with it. And then we’d finished our rather than we’d sit and just talk philosophy and theology for like three or four hours and leave our wife’s at home wondering whether on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday or something. And we did that a few times. And Harry was going through a lot of personal growth, with meditation, and with grieving for two big things that he was processing with me. And there were things that I had not had a lot of experience with so much myself. So I was super curious, I wanted to understand his worldview, I came from a Protestant Christian background, Harry came from a not so practicing somewhat anti religious Jewish, with a Buddhist influenced experience. And so we both had a lot of, I say compatible, but somewhat differentiated perspective of spirituality, and a common deep interest in it. So a lot of our conversations were about understanding the world and how we exist as people and our personal growth journeys, and importantly, our wives, personal growth and how we can support them. And we found a lot of commonality in the role we play in our relationships. And within four or five months, this other gentleman I was chatting with, and a few of the others, it became apparent just weren’t ready, had a few things that went on in place. And in the meantime, Harry, and I wouldn’t get along better than most of our close connections now, personally, and we’ll just like, look, we’ve got to make this work. And to be honest, Ryan, from my experience, I’ve always always wary about partnering with somebody that didn’t share the same fate. So that was a big decision for me to work through. Like, I know, there’s a lot of common values here. But a couple of the things I value a lot, Harry was highly resistant to anything associated with my fate. He wasn’t against, he was just highly resistant to and I went to a lot of my mentors at the time to workshop that, and it grew me a lot as well, I think it was part of my personal deconstruction of fate. I’m still a Christian to this day. But I’ve come from being probably a very narrow minded understanding of how things have to be in a black and white sense. And Harry, one of Harry’s many gifts to me, and my life has been learning to open that up, and to allow me to learn to accept and ultimately love, things that are different to what I would expect or what I would want. And in that acceptance, and I would say love comes not just great understanding, but comes great strength, it challenges and humbles me, but it strengthened me a lot. And I have a much deeper and richer faith experience today, because of the relationship of love with Harry and also the great work we’ve been able to do together, we’ve learned from one another. And so that was about four months, I guess, four or five months, as we call it courting. And then we got engaged, and we drew up this engagement contract, and we even drew up the phone, every marriage contracts. For the end of the engagement, I think we did 10 or 12 months of engagement. And then yeah, and then at the end of that we we had a lawyer mate of ours really well. We go with Ali, sit down with us and drew up the proper. I think we did the first few contracts with ourselves. And we’re going to solicited to do the shareholder agreement. And there was a lot of metric input from from all my mentors. And same with Harry, we both definitely leant on people that we value and respect. So it wasn’t just these two kids in their late 20s. Trying to pretend like they know what’s going on. I think we had the right guidance. And I think it said a really solid foundation. Yeah, fantastic.
Ryan Watson 14:10
And you know that that makes a lot of sense. And what I’m hearing from you to pretty deep on your own journey, found each other saw how it could work together. I’m really interested to hear now, you know, from you, Harry about how this translates into your client work. So you’re obviously practicing what you preach. So without being a cliche, can you take us on a bit of the client journey? How does a relationship start with your your clients? What are some structures and some tools that you use? Yeah,
Harry Goldberg 14:40
look, it’s changed a lot throughout throughout the years. I mean, the basis of it, the principles are the same of the same, right like you understand what you actually want from your life, your purpose, purpose, advisory, right, your purpose, your mission, what are you trying to achieve? And then how can you use your resources available including your finances, especially finances, to To be able to help you achieve that. And then everything that we do kind of leaned, like bleeds into how do we support that journey of the client. Now, a lot of lot of people come to us, mostly by client referrals or business partner referrals, we got some amazing mortgage brokers and accountants and solicitors who love what we do and send clients our way. And we have a lot of clients who refer their clients to us as well. And then we have people who reach out to us on Google we’re in, we’ve got a office, a formal office in Alexandria, in Sydney. And so for the, for those who are unaware, the 20 to 30 year olds who are trying to buy their first home, and will live close to the city, that’s, that’s the exact place that they’re in when they’re searching for a financial advisor. To give you an idea, we usually have a 2030 sometimes ends up being 4050 minute first conversation with someone who reaches out to us. And we’re just trying to understand what goes on in their life and in their world. And one of our favorite questions to ask is, if you could change anything about your life, anything at all, you could change anything about your life right now, what would it be? and why? And the answers are not, I want to be confident in my investment strategy. Sometimes it is. But most of the time, it’s not the saying I want to have more money and retire by 65. Or I want to get a suite of insurance cover. And this is specifically looking for that usually, is I want to have more confidence in my life, or I want to be able to get a promotion, or I want to have a better connection with my spouse, or I want to be I want to be less grumpy as a dad, and just be more connected with my kids. Like those are the types of things that people often start saying. So you had a question that you’re jumping? Yeah.
Ryan Watson 16:40
And I was gonna say, it’s a really interesting one in terms of, obviously, what you’re what I’m hearing, like, there’s a lot more on the qualitative side. So you’ve obviously, you’ve built trust with those prospective clients, they’ve come from a trusted source, that one about people want to be less grumpy, really interesting in terms of what’s what’s truly important to people. Right. Well, I
Tristan Scifo 16:59
just wanted to contextualize that. Because Ryan, part of your question maybe is why these clients even sharing that they’re coming to see your financial advisor, what gives them the expectation that they’re able to share it, and to be honest, clients don’t start the conversation, expecting to share the thing. And I guess that there is a method to our approach that enables those things to be shared within the first 30 minutes, which I don’t think a lot of advisors get the chance for. I know a lot of advisors appreciate these conversations when they come up, even if they don’t feel as equipped, or even as focused on trying to solve. But firstly, we’re intentional about it, if people look on our website, they read our brand, they’ll know that at least part of the gamut of what we’re offering. That said 90 plus percent of people come to us very clearly wanting a financial outcome. And they’re expecting a financial oriented service with with maybe a bit of fluff around the edges, right. And they appreciate so. So you’re right, Ryan, in that there’s some pre screening, less than half have a warm referral. So the other 50% Plus, don’t have any pre built trust with us. So we’re having to do this right off the basis of zero write up a website, and the singular technique that we use, and it’s more of a principle than a technique, but it’s best defined by a couple called Helen Erbil, they’ve developed the Mago process. It’s a really simple mirroring technique, where I think you’ve been doing a bit as meeting Ryan, you know, Harry will share something you say, Okay, what I’ve heard you say is this and this and this. And the intent within Margaret process is not to try and summarize. Nor to jump to conclusions, in fact that the essence of it is to repeat back in their explicit words, what they said, and to be the student, and let them be the master. And go, did I get that right? My hearing, and you want to do that at least twice in in trickle in my experience, ideally, agree, if you can do three theories of that. What tends to happen is this is my analogy in my mind, people come in, it’s like this iceberg. And they give you no more than 10% of what really matters. Because since childhood, and this applies to my kids as much as everyone else. No kid really feels hurt. They’ve got so much stuff, they want to say they don’t know how to express it. And no one really gets let alone people actually hear their explicit words. US adults know what the kids are talking about. We know what other people are talking about. So we go Oh, you mean this, don’t you? And they didn’t, but we think they did. And then we keep running. So the rest of our lives, we’re always expecting that no one’s going to really give us no one really cares about us. And those few experiences where someone genuinely listens to what you say, and repeats back what word what you say. I guarantee it changes the way that person feels and respond instinct immediately. And what happens is that first 10% becomes 30%. And then that 30% becomes about 70%. And you’re not getting to like deep below the water level. What really matters to someone, you’re looking for their story. You’re looking ultimately for their emotions, and you’re looking for the core value. And my challenge to any advisor is to get skilled At getting to someone’s core values within 30 minutes, and focusing zero on strategy, or in anything, numerical, every now and then a client is so bias towards wanting to get your technical input on something. And my view there is great, someone comes with a really pressing problem, solve the problem pocket, and then get to values. And if you can incorporate that principle into all aspects of your interactions, but importantly, the very first part because that sets the tone for the whole relationship with the business, you end up with a client that ultimately trust us, they’ll trust Harry interCall, but also trust the brand they represent. And more importantly, they’ll start to share what they actually want. And if we can then deliver services that genuinely help them, not just sell them into something that we want, we want to make money off. That’s the second half of the equation, obviously. And that’s where you find a quiet life.
Harry Goldberg 20:55
Yeah, the follow the follow through from from asking that question, like, for example. So So hearing what they’re saying, and then feeding it back to them and getting their insights and then uncovering what truths and so about the lower part of the iceberg, the really, the really potent part of that is that then you start to understand, what do they really want. And then you can start to link that with the outcomes that they want to achieve. And then off the back of those outcomes, we can then link that we can then link that to the services that are able to help them achieve them. And so we’re not selling our services, we’re selling our ability to deliver them to deliver on the outcomes that they want to achieve themselves, which you can’t do unless you do a deep exploration the very first time you meet them.
Ryan Watson 21:37
Yeah. And so Further to that, Harry, in my writing, saying, You can’t do it as an advisor, he can’t deliver this type of service, if you haven’t done the work yourself.
Harry Goldberg 21:46
I think that’s a very, that’s a very broad statement. And I’m not sure it’s entirely accurate, I think that it would be it’d be more accurate to say that you’ll be much more effective at doing this type of work, if you’ve done the work on yourself first. And I think there are a lot of amazing financial advisors out there who haven’t done as much personal development. But the ones who I’ve met who I really look up to, are the ones who have done a lot of personal development themselves. And then they allow it naturally to come into the conversation. And they jump on the opportunity when it’s there, even though they don’t feel they’ve got the skill set. But they feel like they’re capable of like having a conversation because they’ve been in a similar type of situation or circumstance. And they’ll kind of bleed it in. And they’re talking from their personal experience, right? They become a mentor. But to create the service around helping someone shift their beliefs or change their mindset, then you’re going to be much more effective if you have shifted your own beliefs and changed your own mindset first, in order to be able to have that conversation.
Ryan Watson 22:45
Your thoughts Tristan?
Tristan Scifo 22:46
Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think just like in sales, if you are good at learning scripts, and you follow them to lead up, you probably become best in your sales pod. But if you want to be best in the nation, you’ve got to deeply believe in what the product you’re selling, like an equivalent or an advisor is is pretty much your question Ryan. Like, can you can you do great advice work as a coach, you haven’t done the work yourself, I think you can, for example, learn the market technique, and rabbit back what you’ve heard from someone and I guarantee you’ll get a better outcome. If you just do that it feels mechanical, feels weird, but you get better results, just at least give it a try with your wife or with your husband. That’s where you really that’s the fruit. But if you have a technique, which works for 70% of the cases, and then you come across one of those curveballs, you’re going to need intuition. And you’re going to need to pivot. And that’s where having sensitivity and knowing the space itself is gonna give you the confidence to go there. Whereas most people wouldn’t, and B is going to get you through. So a really extreme example is in our life coaching department of our business, we work with pretty much any range of people, if someone’s willing to work with us, we’ll say yes, we have limitations of how far we’ll take a conversation and your situation isn’t right for a client, maybe they’re bringing up significant trauma and sexual abuse. And they have existing, you know, Doctor defined diagnoses, we will still work with them, but we’ll just put some limitations around them. But for example, working with someone who has bipolar, and might have had a sexual abuse experience early in the life, the person who’s running the script won’t have the confidence to go through that sort of work. There’s no way someone will be foolish enough to dive into that minefield. Unless they’d been there themselves, either that had the same experience and worked through it, or they’ve worked route with others and emerged through those spaces, and they know how to navigate that world. And what you’ll learn is the typical technique of you know, going back to unpack some of the trauma has to be done from certain angles. For example, one of the main angles you might take them is like a bird’s eye view of what the experience was like. Now for someone who’s dealt with a loss or grief, that’s a really helpful way to get context for what they’ve lost. As someone who’s experienced sexual trauma, that’s probably the quickest way to re traumatize someone. And until you’ve had that experience working with someone, and you brought up their trauma, and you’ve seen the rock wall apart, you’re not going to know that your process breaks there. And obviously, these are not like topics, these are really important things. And as an advisor, you’re you don’t, you’ve gone well beyond fiduciary responsibility. Now, I think there’s, there’s more lack of internal responsibility, or on the internal responsibility to really steward their emotion and steward the space for them. And if you haven’t done the work, that there’s no chance you’re going to get a good outcome for your client.
Ryan Watson 25:36
Yeah. And I like what you said there, too. And the reason why I brought up that point, Harry around, the benefits of having done the work is, I think you raise the trust, it helped get you through the work. So there was confidence vention there as well. But, you know, the bravery and the willingness to persist in the work, even when it gets really hard, you know, other disciplines around coaching or advice, what I’ve seen is that if people haven’t, then not that they stumble at the first hurdle, but there are challenges when they’re really in the body of work, and it gets gets really hot.
Harry Goldberg 26:05
The people who are listening to this are advisors, mostly right? I mean, it just depends on what your mandate is, as an advisor for your business, what are you actually trying to achieve? If if you’re, if your website says, and if you say to clients, that you help them achieve their best life that you, you help them feel at peace and at ease, and that their life is so much better as a result of engaging with you, then you’ve got to be willing to go into these areas that really influence the quality of your life. I mean, if your website is just saying, I hope you get better returns on your investments and have peace of mind that if anything happens to you that your family is financially going to be okay, well, that’s great, that’s fine. If it’s like, how do you live your best life? I had you live an incredible life, how do you like I’m helping, like, if you’re if you’re selling dreams to clients, then you can’t just talk about money, you can’t just talk about finances, you got to start to explore everything that really matters to them. And then you need to have the skills and the capacity and the capability to be able to do it.
Ryan Watson 27:02
And it’s a great segue very interesting, because I did want to delve into some of your clients success stories, like if I, I’d like to pick one, each one, one client from each of you. So I asked, if someone who comes to the front of your mind in terms of someone that you’ve helped take them on their journey? What were their goals, obviously, beyond the advice component, and how they’ve been successful. So what if we started with you, Harry,
Harry Goldberg 27:27
but actually, there was an example she was going to share early on talking about right at the intro call. Right, right before even getting to a discovery meeting. And discussion is up in the call his he heard Justin on a podcast on some property podcast, which was is kind of like, look, I you just you guys sound like you know what you’re doing? And I kind of want some help my great, well, what do you want to achieve? Like, what are you working towards? So well, I want to get in that investment property. So okay, why do you want to invest? This is literally how the conversation went, why? Why do you want another investment property? And he said, Oh, because I want another stream of income and some more capital growth. That’s a great, why do you want another stream of income and more capital growth? And he said, Well, isn’t that obvious? I said that to me, you tell me, why do you want it? I was like, well, that way, I’m gonna get to a point where I don’t have to wait and have to work. I said, What’s wrong with that? It’s like, well, because my work is shitty. And then I go into work. I said, What’s wrong with that? He’s like, isn’t that wrong for everyone? Like, why are you asking me these questions? I said, it could be a different reason for me than it is for you. Why is that for you? And he paused and there was a lot of silence. And some tears welled up in his eyes as well. He said, Because makes me a shitty husband and a cranky dad. I said, What’s wrong with that? It says, That’s not how I want to be. That’s not how I want to live my life. I said, Okay, well, getting an investment property help you with being a less cranky dad, and on the shitty husband is like, no, no, it won’t. In this time. At this date, you had a nice released and it was his guy happy. It was able to laugh about it. I said, What will he said, learning how to be a better version of myself. That’s what’s going to help me. I just, I just got to get better and less cranky, no matter what I’m doing. So okay, well, let’s work on that. And that basically turned into a coaching conversation. And then that resulted in more coaching conversations about 12 weeks of it. Within the first three sessions, he was already a whole lot better. He and his family had moved somewhere else closer to other family where they had some more support, and everything was a whole lot better. And then they engaged with us for financial advice. And just as been helping him and his wife ever since I think they did have an investment property now, about a year and a half later. Like, that’s just that’s just one of those examples that come to mind. If you’re not willing to go there. Then we could have tried to help him get an investment property. But all we would have done is gotten him into more debt responsibilities, and then have to work even harder in a job that he really doesn’t like.
Ryan Watson 29:53
And this This might sound like a strange question, Harry. But when you got off that call, how did how did you feel
Harry Goldberg 30:00
I felt I felt great because that that conversation, like by the end of that conversation, I’d already helped him with some of the practical tools, especially mindfulness type tools and energy and state management type approaches to make changes, and I could see the agony he was in in the beginning of the call. And the I wouldn’t call it joy at the end of the call, but the excitement for the future anticipation for what’s to come, and like a positive anticipation. And that That felt great, felt meaningful.
Ryan Watson 30:31
And you mentioned there, I think within three appointments, Harry, the life change he created, like you’d think you’d mentioned moving closer to family and stuff like that. So
Harry Goldberg 30:39
that happened later on. But within a few sessions, he was no longer a cranky dad or she the husband. And so like, there was some simple things that he was able to do, and I’ll share it to some, some of the audience might want to hear, he found himself really not enjoying his work, let’s just even say, imagine that you are enjoying your work. Imagine that a lot of stress is built up by the end of your workday. And that you’ve gotten, you’ve gotten back to your home, you’ve you’ve driven back, that you’ve got the train, whatever, and you’re just outside your house, and you haven’t gone into the driveway yet, or you haven’t talked to the street just yet. And you’re about to go in and you know, your kids are there and you know, your your spouse’s there. And you have a forced reminder that reminds you, is this the way that you want to come back into the house? Is this the way that you want to show up for your home with your family? And you have that remind you go? No, not right now, this isn’t the way they want to write. So the first step is becoming much more intentional. And then what can you do to change that. And so for him, he had some, he loves music. And so he was able to find some music that really changed his mood, and some some songs that he really loves. And so this all happened within the first three sessions, he identified a whole bunch of different things that he was able to do between getting out of the car and getting into home. That was the very first step. And then if he was able to change the way that he felt from a two out of 10, to an eight out of 10, before he moved in, went into the house, then even if coming back into the house, and all the responsibilities and, and his spouse, stuff with the kids on him and his house or whatever, like too much, even if that brought him down to a five, well, that’s still a whole lot better than if he went into the two and instead of the two or went to a one, or got fed up and wanting to leave. And none of this is about diving into past trauma or different experiences or becoming a psychologist or psychotherapist. It’s literally just equipping him with the tools to be able to take notes. And then he started applying it to his work as well. So it’s no longer just going to work. However he is after the mad rush in the morning of fighting traffic and getting his kids to school. It was how do I want to show up at work right now. And if it was his lunch break, he wouldn’t stay in the state of the office staring at the screen and scarfing down food. He’d make a point to get out of the office, get some nature, or get some fresh air. And then again, how’s he want to come back to the office again? So for him was all about intentionality.
Ryan Watson 32:56
Fantastic. Thanks. Thanks for sharing. Harry, what about yourself, Tristan, if we’re talking you were thinking about a client success
Tristan Scifo 33:03
golf course, I just wanted to add that I mean, Harry’s a skilled coach. And he’s, he’s done the work himself. That’s really where a lot of it comes from his personality helps. But he really enjoys engaging with people. And he’s helped people stop smoking, more and more. One key thing is help people quit. I mean, drought COVID, there was a lot of people came to us with anxiety, depression, and drinking too much, pretty much I like it was just like it all came out in the lockdown. And Harry worked with a lot of these people. And he helped a few people just change their habits entirely around drinking, where they experience their food. And there will be he’s had a lot of great experiences like that. A lot of the experiences I have bias towards the more financial results. I’ve always played more the financial coaching, and then the advice piece. So I help a lot of people build their own portfolio. I train them to learn fundamental analysis, we teach trading, we help people to get practical solutions a lot of the time. And less often do I focus on the wellbeing results as my main solution. But one, I think really rewarding example comes to mind, a lovely gay couple in their late 30s, who I had helped for years beforehand, when I was employed, I just did a financial advice case for them. And they really appreciated it. It helped them a lot at the time is quite simple. And I think we built a rapport. So they came back having looked at me, I realized I was doing more and they got really excited. They’re like, Oh, this is going to be even better this time because Tristan is doing his other stuff. And one of the guys in the couple was really simple minded didn’t want to complicate his life was very content, but also didn’t really enjoy his job. And his partner wanted his his lover to have more joy in his life and to get out of the mall. And so he was really wanting to be like, Oh, can you help us? But I kind of want you to help. I wouldn’t say that. And we started the process. So one of them was really excited like a puppy dog, the other was super resistant to the whole process, we get a lot of it, where one person in the team is walking in than the other. But the other comes along for the ride. And we, we ended up agreeing to take them through our entire process. It’s a six month long coaching process, which has each of the components of the life planning and the personal development, and then the cash flow and investments. And to be honest, we barely got to the cash flow, because after they’ve been through the personal development piece, which of course one of them loved, and the other found quite challenging, but rewarding. We got to the life vision piece. And I think, for a number of reasons, but a lot because of their different approaches to these conversation, they hadn’t been able to really explore their shared vision together, not in detail. They knew what they were roughly looking for, they wanted to pay off the home, they wanted to eventually move out of the city and have a more relaxed life. But that’s as far as they got, I think that was the level of definition they had. We spent the three to three and a half hours over a number of sessions doing life plan. And one of the key components of life plan is to get someone to articulate, well, a couple articulate their 10 year vision, in a lot of detail, specifics of what the property looks like what location is, which kids or animals are there, what brands they have come around their assets, their hobbies, how much they travel, and then we break it down into a full day lived out at first, it’s all the bits and pieces, then it’s sort of flushed together as a narrative, morning to noon to afternoon. And, and they each contribute. So it’s a shared vision, it’s not yours, and yours, which takes a bit of practice as a facilitator to help two people come to a collective vision, let alone to help anyone really share their dreams and their desires. And at the end of that we prompt them to build a visual vision board. So to help them Pinterest sticks, like a whole bunch of images. And they create an asset, ultimately, which represents their vision. Now what was surprising is after the vision activity, these guys went on hade. I didn’t hear from him for like three months, they rescheduled twice and then cancelled. And I was like, oh, what’s going on with these guys. And then I get a call out of the blue from the excited one. And he’s like, interested, just wanted to let you know, we just settled on our dream property. What they’ve done is they decided that they actually had the assets they required just to make it work. They had the serviceability for the property, they sold up, they bought in the mountains, their plan was to do it’s cool Airbnb thing, fills their home with a side split, that they would build the b&b. There were he was calling me whilst he was standing on the deck looking at the beautiful nature with the birds like all these specific elements, which had come in Division, in detail, which they both were now enamored by his partner was completely unlocked, he decided to retire early retirement, and just to tinker and he was going to physically build the b&b. And because he wasn’t engaged in his work in the first place. And so much of his personality was unlocked through that process of refining is his role in life. We ended up about five or six months later, coming back to finish the process, which was helpful and good. And, you know, financially actually helped them quite a bit. But the work was almost complete that and all they needed was someone to take them that step further hold their hand to explore the vision as a team. And there was so motivated, I mean, I think it lent a lot on them as a couple. Some couples have the resources and the aptitude to run with a vision. Others need hand holding every step of the way. And a lot of emotional trauma with patients can get in the way. But it’s rewarding to see that sometimes it’s just so simple, a little key to unlock someone’s future.
Ryan Watson 38:47
Fantastic. Thanks for sharing, Tristan. Now, we’ve got a couple of minutes left. So just from each of you, for those advisors who are listening, what’s a what’s a key piece of advice you’d individually give to them, if they want to explore and evolve more into this coaching space? We’ll start with you, Harry.
Harry Goldberg 39:07
Yeah, that’s a it’s a very, it’s, it’s gonna be a struggle to make that a short answer. So I’ll try and make it as concise as possible. I’d say that there are two elements. The one is all about personal development, how you grow yourself, understanding your actions and your behaviors, being able to explore, like, what do you want from life, understand your own values, learn the emotions that are driving your behaviors, like start to understand that become aware of that and take action accordingly. start to ask yourself, if I could change this, what would it be? If I wanted in another way? What would it be? How do I find the mentors or the resources or the education or the books or the or the courses that I can possibly engage with in order to become better at who I want to be? Right accepting that my success or that my my wealth or that my growth as a person is beyond just how much money I’m able to accumulate? How much income I’m able to earn or how much my clients pay me. And the second element of that which I know it limited for time. So I’m going to limit how much I talk about it, but is a sense of mindfulness. I teach meditation that is something which we do in pips advisory Christians run through the course as well. We teach meditation with the guy who was a monk for 10 years, actually, is got so much wisdom to share, how can he he left the monastery and wanted to kind of resettle in the US. And he was interested in personality system, which we, which we coach clients through as well. And I was curious about meditation and kind of helped each other out and built a really close friendship. And he has been joining and teaching meditation to a lot of our clients and just to other people who wanted to learn. And the key reason why a financial advice practice would start teaching meditation as well, is that you really can’t have an exceptional quality of life, if you’re not aware of what’s actually driving you. If you’re not aware of what’s going on in your mind in those moments of conflict, but also in those moments of joy. Why do you do what you do. And the most important step towards that is to have a sense of awareness and stillness, to be able to appreciate why. And then to have the skill set that in a moment where you’re feeling really rage rageful or angry or saddened, or, or threatened or fearful, that in that moment, you’re able to identify what’s there, and then allow yourself to let it go. It’s a very powerful skill to have. And I I kind of wish that my personal developments. journey had started with the part which I’ve kind of spent most time in in the last couple of years, which is on meditation. I’ve been practicing meditation for six and a half years, but I’m talking about the process that we helped to share with the world. And that’s because if you have that awareness, then all the other things which you want to change along the way, and you what you want to adjust becomes so much easier to take action, and then you’re more aligned to it. And even if it starts feeling a lot more confusing, or a lot more strange, I guess, as you go through your journey, or you don’t have the same concrete answers as to what you actually want to do, it becomes clearer, and you start to learn to trust your intuition. And it makes a very, very big difference. So without talking more about that, that’s kind of my attempt at two minutes. elegiac. Fantastic. Thanks, Eric. That’s
Ryan Watson 42:15
really that’s really interesting for yourself, Tristan,
Tristan Scifo 42:18
yeah, I’ll give as many as I can fit in the two minutes. The first stop looking to me is how can you live, practice it wherever you can with clients especially. Second would be shameless plug lumens, great tool, very solid team, I think they’ve done the best job at creating software, which facilitates wellbeing conversations. Ryan, if you haven’t looked into it, if they’re not part of this podcast, I’d encourage you to get included in some way. Because they’re forging the way in terms of someone who wants to do the wellness conversation, but doesn’t really have the skills, their software does about 70 to 80% of facilitation, that structure for you. You can sit in the same sort of meeting you would have otherwise done, follow the LUMION process. And you’ll find way more traction and resonance with clients than you’ve ever had before. So it’s cool how tech can help in that regard. There’ll be that will come. Yeah,
Ryan Watson 43:08
fantastic. And I’m sure Santi will be happy to share that. Well, that interesting. Yeah, that’s good.
Tristan Scifo 43:13
I’m glad I had the other, he would be mentor. If you’re wanting to coach someone through something, you’ve got to be coached through it yourself. There’s no point trying to lead someone through something if you haven’t been led yourself, otherwise, how you know how to do it. As humans, we all learn by templating. We’re all we’re kids have some sort of caregiver, and we copy them shamelessly for the good and the bad, we copy the role model that were given. And so you want to seek out the best role models in this regard, and you want to get under them, and as close to them as possible pick up as much of most as the count of how they interact. How do they ask you questions? How do they challenge your thinking, whatever their quality is to you is going to limit how much you can offer to others. So seek out mentors, if you’ve not had them naturally before, you have to be intentional. And learn how to build mentors around your life and turn the existing caregivers or metals you have into supercharged mentors who give you the best of what they have to offer. They’re probably the main key
Ryan Watson 44:07
makes makes perfect sense.
Harry Goldberg 44:09
But can I can I quickly add something to the shed for those. We we have a we have a podcast as well. A purpose advisory called successful purpose shameless plug, I’m gonna share it now. But the reason I’m the reason I’m sharing it is because we we have so many of our clients struggle with having the right mentors around them, like best we kind of become the sorry, at worst, like at least we kind of end up becoming the mentors for them. At best. They’ve got some amazing people in their lives and they’re able to find mentors. Or sometimes we’re able to even connect some of our clients with some of our own mentors. But that seemed to be the way that people would engage with mentors, the best or so called mentors, is by learning from them at a distance. And the challenge with doing that by listening to people’s podcasts or by reading people’s books, whatever is it sometimes it doesn’t share that much of their journey. It just shares their expertise and their life lessons. And the reason for this podcast if you’re hearing this, if you just heard what Justin said, Do you want to get mentored more yourself in terms of being able to become a better advisor, or just a better husband, or a better wife, or a better as parents or a better friend, or whatever you want to be better at right? Then find some way that you’re able to approach new mentors. And if you don’t feel confident to approach them and connect with them, or you’re not sure you can find the right people, then that’s part of the reason why success or purpose was created. You can learn from people’s journeys, and they can become mentors from you with me asking them questions specifically on how would you help someone who’s listening to this? who’s struggling with that? How would you help them develop it, they’ll become holistically successful the same as you that success with purpose. Thanks, Harry.
Ryan Watson 45:47
And thanks, Tristan, another real value add for those people, particularly advisors who are listening today. So we’ll wrap it up there. I really appreciate your time. Thank you, Harry. And thank you, Tristan, I understand you know, you’re in all parts of the world but really enjoyed the conversation. Like I said at the start, wasn’t sure where it would go, but I learned a lot along the way as well. So thanks for your time, Gus.
Tristan Scifo 46:10
Thank you, Ryan. Great to be here.
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