#406 Dawn Thomas – Transcript

James Wrigley
Hello welcome back. I’m James Wrigley. Thank you for tuning in for another episode of the podcast I have the pleasure today of speaking with Dawn Thomas. Dawn I have followed you on Instagram of all places for a long while I love your your videos and your your cooking and your trance music, I love it. And your Wealth Designers, thank you for joining us today on the podcast.

Dawn Thomas
Oh, thank you for having me, James and supporting the trance movement. I’m very much connected today.

James Wrigley
We’re going to talk today about finding your finding your forever home as an employee in in financial advice, whether you’re been in advice for in advice for a long while, whether you’re going through the professional year and finding your way out the other side of that door and you’re you know, you’ve worked in a few different businesses and found your home found your voice, which which is fantastic. And hopefully we can you can share some of that with everyone today. Maybe Dawn, if we start with where are you at at the moment? And what’s your kind of what’s your journey been like to find your forever home use the phrase forever home before forever home?

Dawn Thomas
Yeah, my date, my dating history, I’ll tell you my dating history. I’m willing to go there today, the item at the wealth designer, and I found my Coiba, which has taken a while like I think it’s an advisor coming from the banking background. And I know this resonates with a number of advisors who are around during the Royal Commission, and how banks what it seemed like abruptly kind of shut us down. And we became part of the plague. We had, we had a lot of pride in what we did. We loved our peers, a lot of us love the banking environment with, you know, just so much green scenery and teamwork. And, you know, and, and it made us I think a number of us think about where do we go from here, if I suppose what you were doing before was sort of what you wanted to do. And then that abruptly ends, you know, the bank sort of said, you know, in a way, they said, It’s not us, it’s not advisors, they broke up, that was probably the initial plus long term breakout that I did not see coming. And I felt that I committed myself 100% to that. And I was managing a team of advisers. So I had gone that linear route of bank advancement, where you go from, like a grad to an advisor to a business advisor, and then you, you know, managing advisors, right. And I always believed in amplifying the impact of advice. I thought banks could do that if we had the right intentions, like we couldn’t get out to more people. Yes. And I was like, I was so proud of what we did what we did as advisors. And I thought the bank would be a vehicle for that as well, as well as female empowerment. So that ended. And then I went into the SME space. And when you go into that space, I must say that, you know, leaving the bank in that state, you know, if like a relationship, you don’t actually know what you want. I wouldn’t say it’s a rebound. But you don’t really have to think about where you want when you go to the next relation if you

James Wrigley
want another job to go today.

Dawn Thomas
That’s right, if you don’t really know what you want is a bit hard to look for it. And I had a really amazing boss for over four years, called Jamie Luxton. And he helped me find my voice. And if you’re aware of like, you know, with bank advisors, we’re not really encouraged to go on social media, and be outspoken because there’s a lot of rules, right, we have to stay within a box. And he gave me the space to just like, just be you, you know, and, and I did that. And that it was nice, just finding out who I was getting to know what my voice was over that time and experimenting with content COVID came around, which was great, because I think a lot of us tried with different content styles since we couldn’t be in person interfaces. And he was really supportive of that. But then you come to a point of going Do you want to do you want to take this to the next level? Long term, you know, whenever when and more talks about equity and how is it going to be long term? I think for me, I I started getting a sense that I wanted something different. And that was the journey of you know, going to another place and then finding out that again, it was not what I realized I didn’t like that traditional sense of financial advice. I also noticed that with my peers and even I love watching your content, I’m not that you’re yourself. You’re taking a video and you’re on the walk somewhere. When is James now he’s talking about superannuation I’m like, oh my god, I should just do what James is doing. But you know, I’m still like that bank fight where I’m like, oh my call it compliance compliance. I need someone to check what I’m saying before the video, but I love I love that bit of just being yourself and then experimenting in a collaborative environment where advisors are not pitted against each other. I feel the traditional sense of advice is is Doggy Dog. There’s no encouragement or incentive for you to help someone else because you’ve got to look out for yourself and your numbers. And I am a team player, right like I’m a leader by multiplayer like I’m Like, I want everyone to lift up together. And that’s how I found the wealth designers with Troy McMillan and Kara Graham. It was like a one two punch because Troy I’ve always been had a soft spot for saw him in the 2019 aFe. roadshow, and so human car rolled up on stage and I was I had that web of pride. And I was sitting there going, I don’t think I’m worthy enough to be a part of their business. I remember sitting in degli I mean, all of them. But I didn’t think that I fit into their business because I’m too like, you know, me like I’m a bit I thought he really liked serious and smart. And I’m just not like I just I’m more like, you know, into my trance and into like cuddles and stuff like that. So, but I didn’t know that Troy had been having his eye on me to join the business. But we never exchanged that sentiment, because he said, he’s not in the business of like poaching advisors from from businesses. And the other part of it was Kira, Kira and each other for the AFC inspire group. So we would catch up anyway. And then she told me, she was pregnant, and she was having a lot of trouble finding someone that could look after her book while she went on leave for 12 months. So she used the baby angle to kind of squeeze me into.

James Wrigley
So she over the life opened me up

Dawn Thomas
to that dawn, the way she said it to me was, I’m not even done. I’m not you don’t have to say anything. I’m just throwing it out there into the universe. I think you’d be an amazing fit. So between the both of them game, I ended up at CWD. And I first went, Okay, is this all? It’s it is it will because sometimes you go in? Are you going to move past the dating phase and actually find out the real source of relationship? And it’s, it’s not really all that. And you know, for me, I immediately had a sense that it was my advice. So I’ve just shot of getting a tattoo of CWD somewhere in my body, but it will. It’s under review. By Blandon, I’ve landed

James Wrigley
Yeah, it’s Alec, have you been there now?

Dawn Thomas
So I’ve been there a year. Okay. Right.

James Wrigley
So it’s fifth still reasonably new in that if we use this analogy of that relationship, but you, you, you’ve well, and truly feel like your home,

Dawn Thomas
your home. I mean, you know how it is like, again, going back to dating analogy, when you’ve had an experience of a while and you fine tune what you want. And you meet the right setup. And it doesn’t mean it’s the perfect setup without challenges, but it’s perfect for me. Like I’m sure my husband would say that. I’m not a perfect person. But what perfect for each other. You know, we work through the challenges.

James Wrigley
Yeah. So how can how can others like can you share a bit of wisdom for others that are going through the same thing, you know, they’re sitting there sitting in a business where they don’t feel like they can be their true selves? They’re not they’re not. They’re not them. And they’re not enjoying it. They’re, you know, they’re getting that the Sunday scaries going on? I’ve got to go back to work tomorrow morning. I suspect you don’t yeah, that it doesn’t sit doesn’t sound like you get that you kind of bounce out of bed on a Monday morning, and I’m off to I’m off to work. Yeah. How do we encourage others to find their own home look outside of the falls that they’re in? What What can people do?

Dawn Thomas
Look, I think it starts with first of all community, because you need to get to know the advice community, right. So like podcasts like like this with ensemble, you know, going on LinkedIn and connecting up to people that you resonate with their content, I think firstly starts getting you an idea of the kind of advice practices out there. Because if you stay within your for physical by the walls, right, that physical environment, it might, I think some people even get disillusioned with financial advice. They might say, oh, financial advice is one way when we know financial advice can be served in many, many different ways, right, and it can actually serve so many people. As an advisor, you know, if you’re your authentic self, you’re going to draw the right client towards you. Because it’s really about people. It’s about two people connecting and being on a journey to get ahead financially, right and reaching the goals. So if you that first thing is said, if you’re sitting in a place where you don’t feel like yourself, you don’t feel like you can have an honest chat and about the flexibility you might need. Because you are balancing off your life commitments, everybody has like commitments, you’re afraid to even just bring things up, then that’s a first of all, a sign that it’s probably not the right place for you. And it’s just having to what you want to do is grow your community, look at what’s out there and then start talking to people in the community as well. Because that time when you leave, like you don’t want to be looking for a job when you’ve had enough when you actually had a duck for you kind of want to leave on your own terms like you don’t want to leave when you actually got enough in the tank. So it could even be a year it could be a two year process before you actually move. But when that time comes where the right opportunity lands, you want to be You want to be ready for it and rejuvenated for it, you know, so even if you’ll put out for job interviews, you can gauge the culture of the company by asking really the responses of the honest answer you want to ask. You know, so if you’re saying, for example, oh, you know, I’ve got a four year old, and I need to get back in time to pick them up. Right? You should be able to see that at a job interview. If you get a response, that is not great. That’s not a good sign. You know, it’s the truth, right? You might as well test it out. If you think about dating pay, you’re sitting across somebody being Tinder. Not that I did that much that way. But you know, you want to be really upfront with what are the key things you need to be able to do your job? Well, you know, and then, and then be able to also, you know, really look into the company that you’re at a job is not a job, I feel the different financial planning practices that are very successful have a philosophy and a way of life. So does it fit in with you do the values actually connect, so it’s not just a marketing exercise, or these are our values, you know, it’s like, when I went to the wealth designers, Troy genuinely gets me dry, genuinely gets her nuts out. And he does not want me to change one bit right here, it just tells me, please don’t stop having your ideas go faster, I’ll try another crazy, I was driving to work and I had an idea, please, don’t stop. Keep on having them. And we’ll create a space for that, you know. So I think that if you’re in that stage, where you’ve noticed that you’re not feeling like yourself, grow your community, be honest, in job interviews, really, from the start, you know, don’t don’t be afraid of, I’m not going to get the opportunity. We know there are so many opportunities out there. I think that might have a reverse problem now, where you might have too many opportunities as as an advisor, or as an associate. So really be honest, and bring your true self to those interviews and tell them what we need. That will be a good start,

James Wrigley
I get the feeling just from others that I know that have been in a bit like the business here are the people that have left and at different points in time. Maybe there’s a feeling of if you’re not you, because you don’t you don’t know what you don’t know is the first part. And so your point about and building the community and just talking to other people, you might not realize how things are in other businesses, you might not actually be that unhappy where you are. But there’s some amazing things that people are doing in other businesses that are really expensive. And you really want to get that I get the sense from talking to different people at different events and so forth. That there may be there’s this perception that will if I’m not, I’m not terribly happy where I am, that actually led me to go and do it on my own. Do it. Yes. Go and set up my own financial planning business and do it myself. Yes, you obviously haven’t gone down that route. And I’m sure you know, you. You predict you possibly you possibly could. But we’re talking about being an employed advisor, do you want to talk about? Do you have any comments on this idea of going and doing your own thing, which I’m sure is a whole lot of work versus trying to find your home in an established business, but finding the right home that allows you to flourish and be yourself?

Dawn Thomas
Yeah, I feel like I’m an advocate for employees, whatever employee the case, because a lot of times someone has told me set up your own business because they’re like, don’t want if you want to do stuff you want to do set up your own business. Look, I’ve got three kids, right. i And I wonder, I’m also studying part time, I, I really don’t want to have more meetings, and I need to eat out in a day to talk about things that are non client related. Like I’d rather just focus on my client, and then focus on the things I want to do for the profession. You know, whether that’s by studying or my advocacy work will inspire for women and advice. Like I know now, at this point in my life, that I’ve got a set amount of time, and I can only kind of do it in the things that I want. I think business ownership is not right for me right now, you know, but I feel that as an employee, you want to be able to find a space where first of all, they understand you. Because you can be in an environment where you can be championed for the great stuff you have won’t be shamed for being who you are like this. This is like these are environments that exist at the moment. And I just feel for those people who are ashamed when when all of us really have strength in the vise possession. There’s a whole suite of skills that we need. Not everybody has everything, and we’re all constantly learning. So first of all, can you you know, can you bring that to your workplace and say, Hey, I’m not great at this, can I get the help for it? You know, and I am very honest about my points that I want to call it as weakness, I say my growth areas, and I’m also aware of my strength. Right so I I judge a workplace as well by how safe it is for me to raise the things that I’m not sure about because I do want to get better in these areas. And as an employee, given that opportunity within my roles and my areas of growth, to feel like I’m there Minute matters, but also having an ability to bold what the business is doing without necessarily having ownership. And that’s why, you know, the partners and the wealth designers are very open to the conversation. Like I said, like, try gets me which not many people get it, review it throw James either way, the content, not everybody gets what you do. So you really, really value the people who actually the wavelength, the brief wavelength, but then it’s the other support, you know, like getting the advice, building up your technical skills in certain areas you’re not familiar with. So, you know, as an employee, you can do a lot, you can be a part of an industry association, like say, I made as a national chair, and I felt very unworthy when I went on the outside. How do I compare to Kate McCallum like Kate McKellen has her own business. She’s written novel. She’s amazing. Who am I, I’m just like an employee from who, but at the end of the day doesn’t matter. You have a passion, you can lead, you don’t need to be a business owner. And if you have a family or eggs, or like I do, you can still do a lot of what you want to do without having business ownership. I think that’s what I’ve learned in this journey.

James Wrigley
Yeah. And you and your the, like, as much as you, you almost kind of a bit it’s coming at you. There’s a bit of self doubt in yourself, like, who am I? Am I worthy to be this? I, you know, I have I’ve seen in articles of you in the in in different magazines and stuff for years. And like, oh, wow, look at this stuff that Dawn’s doing look, they have bright purple hair, and all the rest of it like this. I’m just there’s people absolutely in the industry that are looking up to you and going, Oh, wow, look at all the things that she’s doing. I don’t feel worthy of being on her team. That there’s there’s absolutely going to be people like that out there. You do want to talk a bit about about kind of finding your voice and bringing your authentic self flying, you know, you, you mentioned about being in the bank. And I suspect, not that I ever worked in a bank. But I suspect being in a bank environment, you had to do certain things and follow certain guidelines and maybe look a certain way and talk a certain way with clients. What you know, was it somewhat constrained in you and your personality versus theirs? I imagine there’s been an evolution of you bringing your full self into into the advice industry? What’s that been? Like?

Dawn Thomas
Look, I think internally in the bank, I was very much myself, but I just never expressed it externally. Never use social media. And I must say that within the bathroom, that’s why I say when I did enjoy times in there, even though there were challenges. I was recognized a lot by not only my managers, but senior leadership in the back, because see what like, they got this weird sense of my approach to advice. Because I don’t I don’t think I know how to turn up to work without being myself. I have to, like, I don’t think I could do that. So, you know, I arrive and you know, like, you go out with, let’s say your your regional bankers, you know, the bankers that go off and see farmers, I’ll be like, Hey, guys, like, you know, I know nothing about farming. But we built a board. You know, I hop in their car, you know, I went there for 12 hours, I’m talking to farmers who know that I’m from Singapore and know nothing, you know, they all have a laugh at certain things, I don’t know. But it’s just like, Look, I can’t hide that, that I am different, even visually, even, you know, being a woman of color. Being an immigrant, the way I sound, everything is different, right? And even if you weren’t all those things, everyone is different anyway. So that was received, like, I never had an issue with it. In the bank, though I, there were groups of people that had an issue with me being accepted for it. Because I think they were used to they did this a certain way, how can I be doing things another way and then getting recognized for it. And it’s not like I was doing anything on purpose. It’s just that you’re showing up and being yourself. You know, I always felt safe to go to senior leadership and give them my feedback. Because I never felt like I’m a low level employee. So I can talk to you, I’ll just be like, I’m gonna give you feedback on why and then my nickel works, maybe you don’t know what’s happening. And in in branch will be banking, you have to your team is actually the branch, you know, so I had to make it interesting for them. I guess I’ve been doing financial literacy from DDOT. Because I will have a group of people who did not know much about TTR didn’t know about that. And you’ve got five minutes in the morning to pitch to them. Why is it important for someone to see a financial advisor you know, so I found my skill set as an arts graduate maybe that’s where the doubt comes from. Because I’m my undergraduate degrees and media degree that came in very handy with all the communication pieces that were needed in the bank. Absolutely. Yeah. But stepping out of it James that was the other bits I that voice more openly and being like trying out LinkedIn more and then venturing into Instagram badly. That came after the bank, you know, and that came from from just being able to go Yeah, the shackles are off. Now. No one’s watching you. Were what you put on your body. It really approvals of what whether it be stamped. Yeah,

James Wrigley
yep. So you mentioned before that you’re doing some some stuff Leading and and inspire advocacy work with within the industry. What are you studying? What What? What are you up to at the moment? Yeah, so

Dawn Thomas
I’m doing a PhD part time studying the superannuation journeys of generations that. So that is an area that I’m very passionate about. You know, I think young people have the benefit of long term investing, right? They have the benefit of time. So I’m like, why would you not use that, if you, you don’t know, wait till you’re 40 or 50, to find out that you had the benefit of time. So that’s the stuff that I teach my kids. And that’s the stuff I want to research. So it’s very much in line. And try gets that as well, in terms of the wealth designers is very much in line with what, you know, everything’s in line, right? So I took a break for two semesters when I joined a wealth designers just to be able to ensure that all the client transfers are going well, but my opinion touched by supervisors, and we are picking up everything again, because as you can imagine, it’s quite intensive, having to do all the academic reading, to put through things within deadlines, otherwise, we get kicked out of the court. So and the other thing exciting around the studies is that there’s something called the national industry PhD program that’s just been launched this semester, where people who are in industries wanting to do PhDs, can get a scholarship with both their workplace and the university actually paid funds, so that they can help support and actually doing the research. Yeah. Ben Nielsen’s over it, he’s my buddy with, with helping me out with all of that. So I even know when the wealth designers, Troy essentially, when we apply for that scholarship for me next semester, Troy will essentially be sitting as a supervisor from the industry side, the wealth designers and working with, in a way the University. And I think that’s so powerful, like, wouldn’t you want to get your name behind it? Like, I didn’t think you’d be excited by it by he’s pretty excited around it. So that’s what he’s doing. And he’ll probably take, you know, I would say about four years for me to complete it, because I’m doing it slowly. And that in terms of what

James Wrigley
I was getting, just just just on the studies, so what what are you hoping that will come out of it? So did you say Gen Zed? Did you say yes? What generation? Did you say that Gen Z generation that? What are you? What are you? What are you hoping will come out of the studies that you’re doing? Were you like, you just have to do a whole lot of PhDs and all the rest of it or thesis. But can you? Do you think you might be able to leverage that into the advice that you’re doing teaching for schools or something like what do you think might come out of it?

Dawn Thomas
Look, I I approached it in a way that we’re not going to get enough support and advice committed community to be able to help young people, right, even I am disillusioned on that front, that we’re not supported enough as a profession. So I want it to be clear for superannuation companies, as well as employers on how to support young people when they are going through their first superannuation journeys. So as we know, it, super stapling, and the removal of the income test threshold for Super guarantee, you know, someone as young as 15, could end up with your first super fund, and then it stapled them, till they finally decide they want to look at their superannuation, right. So for me, I’m like, This is the main part of our retirement system, I don’t understand that we the government is having to approach in a very passive manner, because our system is passive. And people are passive, because its system is so complex. And so we have a job as advisors, but yes, just, I just like, I, we need to give them better support. So my first round, I had a mini research round as part of the integrated part. So people who don’t have a master’s by research, I’ve got a master’s by, by coursework, you’ve got to do like one year of units, where you’re doing many components of the PhD so that you can demonstrate to the university that you can tackle the PhD. And we ran a survey for about 100 gender, on their superannuation experience, or whether they were from a private school or whether they were from a public, so they felt like there was no education really provided to them or support. So it’s not I didn’t think it was important, they just go on to the talking about it. And if we know about their parents, their parents are probably not that comfortable to have the conversation with them. So I’m, I’m just hoping that this research just first of all really outlines the experience of Generation Z just because they’re young generation, we don’t have a lot of research in that area. And then we’re going to be able to find ways to better support them from the schools from superannuation funds from employers because I think about 50% had employer selected funds so yeah, that’s the hope maybe we can change the outcome of a whole generation

James Wrigley
Yeah, that’s that’s that’s incredible work because we need like it like I mean, I think back to my first job, my first job I worked in Kmart, I had a wrist super fun because as the retail one default and yes, he said like it’s stable. Now isn’t So you can get you get the understand why they’ve done this stapling thing to try and avoid people having multiple super funds and money getting lost all over the place. But yeah, you really are looking at 15 year old in that works at McDonald’s into that superannuation fund good, bad or otherwise, and only time is going to tell whether it’s been a good one or not now for probably the best part of 20 to 25 years before they get into their mid 30s or 40s. And they gradually I should start to think about this money stuff a little bit, a little bit more. And that’s, that’s a huge time frame that someone could have been stuck in a poor one versus a good one, there was sort of valid until you’re shipping to be

Dawn Thomas
nine, I know that retirement system is slow to adapt to what the current needs are the population, right? So the way I look at it is okay, we got to work with what we have, because we know it’s not going to change overnight. It’s a very slow, as much as people say, superannuation changes all the time, there’s, like no changes very slowly over time. And even though we look at young people, I talk to my children about the fire movement, and also less reliance on your job dictating your ability to retire Well, it’s more about what you do with the money to be able to invest it long term that will give you choices through life, in terms of living towards really, if you think about your authentic life, I’ve been raised in that bit of you work in a one job. So your 60s, and you retire, that’s what my parents did. So that’s what I’ve learned, kind of way of approaching it. But for my children, we understand this new generation differently. You know, they are value driven, you know, from the surveys that are coming through, they’re very value aligned, you know, they are pushing employers look at work differently, you know, they want the world to be a better place. So why not? If you are, if you are wanting to drive, change your money in superannuation can drive trains to Ethical Investments, for example, if that’s your thing, right? If you feel like that compounding effect over time salary sacrificing all the time, but if you don’t get them engaged, you don’t actually know what they’re missing out on. So, and I Yeah, and even though it was we see, okay, the Superannuation is there, they’re gonna get it when you’re 60. Look, at some point they’re going to reach 60. Understand, it’s not a perfect system. But you really want the funds that are funding you from 60 Onwards to be sitting in a tax effective environment. So you know, go live your life up to 60. Nobody’s telling you not to holiday at 30 And have you know, find yourself in Spain, go do all those things. But from 60 At least you know that that that pot of money is actually working for you.

James Wrigley
The advocacy work in the industry was the other bit that I that I asked him but I did that studies is quite interesting what you’re going through. So so inspired, I’ve had a chat with a with a few other people that have been involved with within within spire but so you the Wi chair, what you are worth, tell us about Inspire.

Dawn Thomas
Okay, I’m the national chair, very national, of AFP. And I’m going to put as part of the process that we are doing the project work on, what is that shaping up to? So at the moment, I believe I’m still national. But what that is, is like, you know, sort of the state, the state, either chairs, New South Wales, we’ve got baby Baker, any Fordham’s from Queensland. We’ve got Jasmine tech from Victoria. And then currently in WA, we have I suppose that stop field at the moment. So already within spire and just even with the chairs, I feel like I work with super women like amazing, amazing women, I get so inspired by them, and further that they’ve got committees with furthermore inspiring women. And our job is to bring together you know, women in our profession, not just advisors we’ve been we’re wanting to be in yet even people of diverse groups, and really making them feel seen and heard, and making sure that we can all grow together into this future together, just making sure they understand they have a place here, they’re valued. And we want to work together as a profession to help them find their thesis. Well, yeah.

James Wrigley
How did you how did you end up getting involved with with with at all? How did that happen?

Dawn Thomas
That’s a good question. It’s all it’s all the part of life just accidentally rolling over to the next. So far off,

James Wrigley
I thought that’s what you’re gonna say. Life’s twists and turns and you ended up there, because it seems like everything, everything that’s happened to you up until now, that seems like how it’s evolved. You just go with the flow and go with the flow and I’d say you have a good time.

Dawn Thomas
It’s all a trans festival James, you know, you put onto your store for like an hour or so and you just go so if this is the way like you personally, I believe in say yesterday universe, right? Things are thrown at you. Yeah. And yeah, it may not always work out, right, but it’s fine. You always got something to learn. And when I left the bank, that’s when I started actually entering myself into a ward. And I know women as a whole don’t feel actually how do you put it we feel immodest. If we first of all talk Bala treatments, and secondly, going to awards your like your ex almost expecting sounds to go pay, you’re worthy to go into awards, please enter yourself, right? I had mentors at that point and stuff and I just went like, I felt like a phoenix rising from the ashes after leaving from the bank. You know, after that I was just like, You know what, I’m not gonna have anyone nominate me, I’m just going to nominate myself, and I’m not going to be I don’t even care about. Right. So it started that process of entering myself into awards. The self reflective piece on it, when you put in an application is amazing, you know, you start really taking ownership of what you’ve done over the years. And I started 2017. And in 2019, I won the Female Excellence and advice award. And that put me in touch with EFE. The AFP had such did such a great job with just putting me in front of opportunities to use my voice. And then I’ve kind of run with it and done further things with that. And from that year, because technically, I’ve been a winner for three years, James, because of COVID. The longest standing winner,

James Wrigley
longest run like a standing

Dawn Thomas
standing winner. So they could see, I suppose, more of my voice coming through from winning that award, getting the platforms using the platforms, then I was approached by efe to be the national chair. And yeah, the first thing was like, Are you sure you’ve got the right person? I’m not sure you’ve got the right person? Are you sure you want my voice or not? I asked that it’s a bit weird. Do you want me speaking on behalf of the FA women because I don’t know if you want that. And they assured me. They just wanted me to be me. And to do that, and I’m so grateful that they, they’ve asked me to do that, James, because I wouldn’t have pictured myself in the role. And it’s been such a giving role. And I think there’s so much more work that we have to do,

James Wrigley
what to rule kind of we’ll, we’ll start to start to draw the conversation to a close. But one thing that you just said there, and it’s it’s clearly, it’s clearly what’s gotten you to where you are. And I’m often saying it to some of the younger guys here, just just say yes, like things will come your way over time. Just say yes, it might be scary. It might be frightening, like you’re doubting yourself, Am I worthy of being a national chair? Absolutely. You’re worthy of being the national chair, like who doesn’t want to, you know, listen to you speaking at different events and so forth. But it’s but it’s just the say yes. Like don’t get don’t let the fear of something, get in no way. Say yes. Worry about what you’ve said yes to later on. But but say yes. And take up that opportunity. Yeah, that seems to be something that you know, in our guiding principle of sorts that you’ve been living by, and look at where you are now.

Dawn Thomas
It’s, it’s I mean, it’s the only way it says that you’re right, and you put it down here is that I had doesn’t mean I see Yes, without doubt. I actually have a lot of doubts, but I’m just like, You know what, let’s just see how this goes. Because if anything, it’s a growth opportunity. Within a month of me joining the wealth designers, Troy got me to do the video, or the website, I was just voluntold he’s like, Dude, I think it’d be really good for this. And that’s the thing about Troy as well, that is that he’s always treated me like a long term. Like this was this was really like a long term thing from the start. Like I didn’t have to be there for years to be worthy enough to be on the video of the website. He put me on that and it was a whole day of filming James like learning like to look into the camera like it’s a short one minute video. Man. I tell you, I slept really well that night because I was just not sleeping for days before. And people have messaged me go oh, you really naturally that I might. I was afraid like I was nervous. But okay, look, now I can say I’ve done, you know, being in front of the camera nines. pretended like I knew what I was talking about. And it’s possible, right? So that’s ticked off. No, I’m not changing career. I’m not going to be in front of the camera, but it’s just one of those things that you’re better for doing it. Even though you’re really nervous for it.

James Wrigley
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Well, Dawn, thank you for joining me today. It’s been an absolute pleasure. I’ve wanted to speak with you for some time. I’m glad we could record something for ensemble. Yeah, you just shine through even on the podcast. So everyone’s gonna get a sense of sense of you. And your attitude. We’d love it. Thank you for being part of the part of ensemble today.

Dawn Thomas
Oh, thank you so much, James. And honestly, your content is so good. It just reminds everyone to just be yourself record anywhere. There’s a lesson you’re giving me there’s a challenge. So if you see some content coming out.

James Wrigley
Just keeps showing up. Yeah, still showing up. Thanks, Dawn.

Dawn Thomas
Okay, thank you.