#407 Daniel Jackson and Jennifer Laing – Transcript

James Wrigley
Hello, welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Hi, I’m James wrinkly. And I’ve got the pleasure of speaking with Daniel and Jen, both from modern new financial planners, somewhat last minute agreed to join me today for recording an episode. Daniel, you have been on the podcast before. But Jen, this is your first time. So welcome to both of you. It’s a pleasure to have some time to speak with you.

Jennifer Laing
Thank you for having us.

Daniel Jackson
Thank you, James.

James Wrigley
That’s alright. as we as we tend to do with a lot of these podcasts, we tend to go go back a little bit and talk about kind of the story of how I guess each of you According to financial advice and the different roles that you’re playing within the financial advice space. Right now and some of the ins and outs of of your business. Daniel, maybe we’ll start with you. We’ll we’ll spend most of the time trying to speak with Jen but Daniel, maybe start with start with you. Tell us about modern new financial planners what’s what’s the story, they

Daniel Jackson
use a modern you began basically off the after the Royal Commission, I was in a stage in a situation where there’s a lot of structure and things changing with different businesses and everything. And it got to the point where I had this vision of mine, I just done the AFA rising star that Chris met Victoria, overall, great people from there early. And I just thought, you know, it’s time for me to be my own part of the profession, like my own vision, everything. So one day was literally like Jerry Maguire, just everything for the person with interesting mess. I’d walked out with absolutely nothing and just a dream and a vision. And that’s when you began. Yeah.

James Wrigley
And what, what, what’s involved in, in that you could speak to a lot of people in a whole lot of different businesses. But what’s involved in that stepping out of a cam unemployed financial advisor at the moment, like, what’s, what’s the first thing you need in setting up your own business? What do you even start?

Daniel Jackson
Zero cliche, James, the best way to say is you need to start with a why you really got to have a purpose of why you can’t do it, it takes a lot to actually go out of their comfort zone. And the days, you know, people think why are we doing this? It’s not going well, why don’t we go back to employment. But when you’ve got to why when you’ve got a sense of purpose, it’s the first thing you absolutely need, and go around some of the business and take that step into the unknown launch. I think I was fortunate because before I became in the industry, before I became a employed owner, I was actually an entrepreneurs, I actually ran a few businesses before. They were very successful businesses, I just wanted to change of career. So I already had the basic knowledge and tools, that if you do go out on your own, it’s always good to find that network of people that can actually help you with those tools. And one a good mentor and learn from their mistakes don’t make their mistakes.

James Wrigley
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. And Jen, how about you? So you say your work in the, in the modern new financial planning business? What’s What’s your bit of backstory to, to where you’ve gotten to where you are at the moment?

Jennifer Laing
Um, so my financial planning journey started, when my youngest turned two. And my husband asked me what I wanted to do when he went to school. I already had a diploma in accounting, and but I didn’t enjoy that field. And I had experience in bookkeeping, but no qualification. So I’m basically starting from scratch. But I’m a numbers nerd, and a bit of a geek, and I like analyzing things. So I found myself listening to podcasts by an influential American Finance guru. And sort of memorized his steps to financial freedom and paid off the debt and I got an emergency fund and then got into investing and how do I do that? And his advice was quite wisely, go find a financial advisor. And I got to that stage and realized, you know, what, I don’t want to find a financial advisor. I want to be one. It’s incredible. So um, yeah. That was in early 2019, just after the financial standards changed. So I was looking up on the FPA website as to how to get into the field because no one wants to do more work than they have to. And I realized that my diploma was actually the key to getting back into uni. Both for three CPE so I could cash in the diploma for enrollment into the bachelor. And yeah, that was in March 2020. And started doing a bachelor.

James Wrigley
Yeah, right. So the COVID series that so was that all when the youngest was at school, so you weren’t doing that with with with young children at home or your

Jennifer Laing
kindergarten in 2020? Okay. Yeah. So that was the plan. And he’s gone to school. Let’s go get stuck into this. And then. Yeah, all that happened. So, yes, I was studying four units at home with two kids at home doing schooling at home. Yeah,

James Wrigley
yeah, four units, four units at a time, or you did that COVID period.

Jennifer Laing
So I did four years in my first semester.

James Wrigley
That’s amazing. That’s full time,

Jennifer Laing
useful time. And I had no idea what I’m getting myself in for. My husband pulled me up at the end of that unit at the end of that semester and said, You’re not doing that again. So we turned it back to three. So I’ve done my whole degree over three and a half years.

James Wrigley
Okay, I was gonna say, have you finished it now you have yet?

Jennifer Laing
I finished in June.

James Wrigley
So where are you at in terms of the professional year?

Jennifer Laing
So I was approved to start my professional year in March this year. So I’m still finishing uni, and I’m doing it part time about 40% through my first quarter.

James Wrigley
And what about your first role in financial advice like is working in for modern new financial planners? It was like your first role in financial advice?

Jennifer Laing
Yeah, basically, I met Daniel through CQ he was one of my he maximal of my assignments, and he was my lecturer for my capstone Financial Planning Unit. Financial Planning construction. Yeah, I was quite taken by his his teaching styles and his ability to communicate very clearly. And I thought it was brilliant that he make an awesome mentor. So once I finish that unit, I sort of approached him about whether it’d be possible to start working with him at one new and yeah, started casually, in January this year, as a sort of a Client Services Officer paraplanner just learning the back office. And then in March zero before I was approached by interpret to start my professional year,

James Wrigley
and Daniel, what is the business look like from a bums on seats in in different roles? Like how many people are there? Is it just the two of you? Is there more like what what is it? What’s it look like?

Daniel Jackson
So predominately, we got on, on the boats on staff, we’ve got somebody takes over doing all the following everything for now CSO role, we’ve still got my son who has actually came into the business for a while, he still helps me with the back house and everything behind the scenes. He was a broker for us for a while. And then because the division to focus purely on financial planning, and when Jen came on board, we just had, she has a natural passion for financial planning and natural talent, pick everything up and we thought, Well, maybe it’s time to get to know our advisors, Kurt. So we’re slowly taking over the entire east coast of Australia.

James Wrigley
So general B wants to end finishes py general be the second advisor in the business. So Daniel, there’s you and suddenly you’ll end up with the two advisors. Is that right? Or you’ve got another one at the moment.

Daniel Jackson
So it’d be just the two of wands. Yep. Yep.

James Wrigley
Now you’re, you don’t work out of the same office or live terribly close to each other. Where, where? Wherever you post located.

Jennifer Laing
So I’m in Bundaberg nice, sunny, warm Queensland where they make raw Daniel

Daniel Jackson
longer where it’s actually the complete opposite, it’s freezing cold, especially the snowfields nearby and they don’t make run.

James Wrigley
So how does that? How does that work from a professional year perspective? So we’ve got different people at different stages during the professional year here. And the first quarter, at least from the provisional year perspective is, is fairly like administration based type time on client files, and, and so forth. So how does that work? And how do you? How do you propose the latter part of the professional year where there’s a lot more onus on going to client meetings and presenting and running their meetings and that kind of thing? How, how have you planned on making that work with you, the two of you in different parts of Australia?

Daniel Jackson
I think I’ll jump on this, Jennifer. So I think perspective it was the we have an advantage over everybody else in that I was actually teaching as electro CQ. And what we’re doing is we’re wanting to like okay playing against us taught us is that we use the same techniques that we use when teaching students so actually, it’s Jan, and gentle support resources that she needs. So for us it actually feels natural working remotely. And we just adapted the business major so that gives Jen everything she needs to be able to do the job as anybody else would have thought in the office. And basically no different if we will place a nice week keep the monitors on at all times, where they’re on hand to talk to each other. You’re frustrated the poor faces at the other person right now with the camera but also as possible yet professional that we make it work. And we’ve delayed a part to it. So there’s a lot of traveling and we’re just planning trips out. I’ve got New South Wales, Victoria, Jen’s gonna eventually have Queensland. And we’re going to be bringing her down to where it is nice and cold. So she’s like in Australia. And he’s just planning trips to do the face to face and Bundaberg as well and basically help her start to build up their client. Yeah.

James Wrigley
So do you just picking up on? You mentioned you’re kind of taking a teaching approach to, to the professional. Yeah, but then also just something you mentioned about you’ve got the screens on all the time. So the two of you have, like a team’s video call or something like that just going the whole time. And you’re and you’re both on this is if I know if your colleague was sitting next to you in the office, that’s fine. Is that what’s going on? Yeah,

Daniel Jackson
yeah, we came zooming in the background, we actually watched part of the video for our very first day. I was gonna go do it via zoom and how both nervous and that we were but to the point where it’s no different than an associate with you, James?

James Wrigley
Yeah. How’s that? Like, of course, that makes sense. Like I want, like whether I’m sitting in a little office room at the moment recording recording this podcast with you, but but I just left a desk where there’s someone sitting on that side, and there’s someone sitting on that side of me, but he had to leave the Zoom going all day long. And other others do a bit of a check in in the morning and a check in in the evening. But why not? Have it going the whole time? Make sense? Yep. So Daniel, can you maybe talk a bit about an agenda to chime in as well? What is the like? What’s the teaching approach to doing the professional year hat? Like how, what does that mean? How are you structuring that?

Daniel Jackson
So as I said before, using the same technique, which focuses a lot on work, integrated learning. So it’s basically very hands on in a very realistic environment. And for us, it was really good because I was just transitioning from that environment from there to which is no different from actually, I was actually learning from the university, we did have to make a lot of changes to make it adaptable for Gen, pretty much I would work. In practice, we still have that, but we just changed the way that we actually do things, just changing our systems. There’s a lot of trial and error.

James Wrigley
And Jen, what’s what’s your take on? On how it’s going? I suppose you know, you have an experienced professional here somewhere else. So it might be a case of you don’t know any different, but But are you seeing similarities in the way that you’re engaging in the professional year? Now versus your studies? At uni? Like, is there any similarities? They’re not

Jennifer Laing
so far, I’m still kind of easing into the study aspect of the professional years. Mostly, it’s been a lot of observing final pollinating, interacting with starting to interact with clients. You know, that sort of thing. But we are starting to look into the ethics side to prepare for the, the exam.

James Wrigley
The exam, you’ve got to do, yeah, that’s the big one. In quarter two, you can’t, can’t pass quarter two, until you’ve done your exam. I think you’ll be fine. If you’ve just particularly if you’ve just done some studies, university degree muscle memory, I’d imagine you’re going to be fairly well prepared for that.

Jennifer Laing
Yeah, I’ve got the best in the industry to teach me so I’ll be fine.

James Wrigley
It’s a gym, what do you what are your clients look like? What are some you’re in different parts of Australia? Where Where do you clock? Where are your clients located? What do they look like? Can you talk a little bit about that moment,

Jennifer Laing
I’m meeting Dan’s clients through zoom so when he meets a client, we just again keep the Zoom running and point the camera in that general direction and I chat to the client through the zoom and observe the meeting that way the plan is to build up some clients up here but that’s gonna take time

James Wrigley
to Daniel’s clients mostly around where you are like are they fairly local to you? Or is it you’ve got some started across the country? What’s it what’s it like?

Daniel Jackson
So for my clientele is predominately between Melbourne a lot of them is no longer region with international clients as far as Canada so zoom Mexico for that have a lot of their hands on physical face to face they come into our office and so we just make sure that we’ve we’ve got cameras in the project to actually stay the overall picture of what’s going on. On the Pilates part of the clients are actually really enjoying having Jen in the video as well. Yeah, I said just now comfortable with that Gen Z on the screen watching as well and sort of joining and joining the conversation with her, they try to include her as much as possible as we try to include Jen in to the meeting. And it’s just become a natural dynamic. Now, if a client comes in and Jen is not on the spring, they are actually asked questions and make choices. Alright, and everything. So

James Wrigley
where is she? What, what do you typical clients look like? What? What’s a typical modern new financial planning client?

Daniel Jackson
We’re very holistic. So when a lot of advisors they are we’re holistic, we are actually real estate, we specialize in anything that we can specialize in everything. So I’ll have clients come in at a 20 just starting in their first job and everything’s coming out of university, up to 80 year olds who would like um, you know, complex estate planning strategies pass on to their family and they move on, we pretty much take care of in between is good, because the way the structure the businesses designed that we could take that formalistic approach, apply all the standards. However you business, explore every avenue we can provide the client see opportunities that they want the advice they’re looking for, for their journey.

James Wrigley
Yeah, fantastic. Yep. You were mentioned before we pressed record, you commented on now on a post that link on LinkedIn, no matter how they put up about estate planning, and you offered to have a chat with what with what you’re doing. We do and I suspect a lot of financial advisors they had this the standard or you need to you should have wills and powers of attorney and make sure you get the beneficiary nominations on your super fund those kind of things. Are you doing anything extra in that estate planning space, other than the stock standard?

Daniel Jackson
So we because they’ve made it becomes the way we discourage nice ballistics, they planning is the overall picture of what we know so much, you know, the lifestyle that you want to live, what you’re wanting to protect, but how you gonna pass it on, and what’s gonna be like for the next generation, so we try and activate as much as possible for him. We’ve got one strategy, we’ve got an elderly lady, who had a fairly large sum of money in her hands savings. For example, she, when she passes away, she wants to pass it on to the grandchildren, grandchildren thing aged between, say, 2026, the problem came, all the charges came, how are we going to pass that money on without them actually spending the money in one lump sum, that testimony trust your traditional industrial good testamentary trust, what we created is she also was looking for capital guarantee, and income to support a Washington silver card. So we took an approach using the factor of the grandchildren, we did a multi tier annuity or challenger. And so from growing a one year term, a two year term and a three year term splitting the money evenly. She’s getting the benefits of the capital guarantees she’s getting the benefits of having the income coming in. But if she passes away, the children will get the grandchildren will get all the money at different stages in their life, with the largest lump sum amount being towards it or ants all the way there. That little bit of money that they get advice to help them through the grieving period without the risk of face

James Wrigley
to sit. Can you talk me through how does that how the stages that they’re getting them that the money is from maturity of the annuity, at different points in time.

Daniel Jackson
So from the maturity of the maturity of the annuity, so if she dies in year one, we’ve got new ones worth coming. Within 12 months, year two have been two years year three and year three, mommy come up to mature, calm to renew the maturity, we then reassessing it as late as feasible. We just set year one to year three and three. And we just started rolling maturity isn’t what is that? Like?

James Wrigley
Is there any particular structure around the conversations and genuine might might know a bit about this from sitting in at some of the meetings as well. But is there any particular structure around an estate planning conversation that you’re you’re using with clients to try and flesh out these these goals or aspirations for new clients?

Daniel Jackson
So what we do in that aspect is that we we said nicely set it at the very start we put it the framework into the clients mind. Yes, we’re going to be having this conversation for them. We discussed the holistic approach we talk about every aspect and as I said before, estate planning vestige also want to come up with other know that so by doing that, we say to him that we’re going to be asking weird and wonderful questions and they’ll put out what it is we’re asking. So there’s no surprises when I do start asking if I introduce Nice conversations into it. So like I’ve got a really I’ve got a power of attorney how Eddie on your first passed on. That was sort of out the door to go into more detail. It could be in one aspect, this emotional, thoughtful, but it’s not. Because we’re frightened him to let them know that we’re going to be asked quite nicely.

James Wrigley
It’s a Gen what, obviously working through the professional year, longer term, what’s, what’s the plans for Gen longer term?

Jennifer Laing
What’s the plan for Japan long term? Well, around December next year, I’ll be getting my AR. And then I’m going to hit the ground running and take over the world.

James Wrigley
As it have you given any thought to imagine trying to give out some clients around where you are in Bundaberg? Have you given any thought as to how you might go about doing that?

Jennifer Laing
Um, yeah, I’m Dan and I have a saying you’re stuck with me. So we’re not planning on? Yeah, I’m not planning on going anywhere. I know a lot of PI’s tend to finish and move on. That’s not my plan at all.

James Wrigley
And in terms of finding clients around Bundaberg What do you do? Do you have any involved in sporting clubs or school things? Kinder? Like Wait, how it? How do you think you might go about doing that?

Jennifer Laing
I’m gonna pick the brain and my mentor sitting over there because he’s brilliant at this sort of thing. My thinks the numbers he’s the creative. Okay, he’s the numbers as well. But yeah,

James Wrigley
Daniel, what do you think?

Daniel Jackson
So working with my mentor on this? Absolutely. Fantastic LV Meijin. Overcome the post barriers unit refer remote. PY, pretty much with strategies, I’m gonna be doing a lot of trips, which you know, where it’s nice and warm, and they have pages, I’m really not looking forward to cut live. And yes, I’ll be doing a lot of chips out there to basically, it’s like we’re building the board in Union agents by the minute. So we’re going to be going into try and really heal from it and getting it out there with more than is very big in helping support local community events in local communities, and local charities. So we’ll be using the same approach that we used in Albury Wodonga. In Melbourne. We’ve set up the numbers for the journey north get the interest in generator and going through the Wide Bay Area. And it’s because we do like giving to the community we are more of an educational practice where we run the class, if you’re a people, planner, our profit plan where people plan of sorts, doing seminars and just seeing what we can do to really help the Underberg community. Because I think that’s our greatest strength and everything we do is we have a real passion to help people. Would you agree with that, Jim?

Jennifer Laing
Yeah, we are definitely values aligned.

James Wrigley
Yeah. Sounds like sounds like you’ve found the right place to end that’s for sure. Yeah, definitely. So, Daniel, like, are you still doing the lecturing at university, he’s still doing that as well.

Daniel Jackson
I am. Just beginning now, this semester, so I’m doing a thing 1919 which I call the Top Gun class. That’s pretty much what it is, you’re the best of the best. And we just, you know, we take everything that you’ve learned, and we just put you out a firefight. So I’m teaching that one. Yeah, we’ve had CQ, my colleague Andrew Laney section insurance on how and why attention estate planning. So it’s actually a lot of advisors, lecturing, see here. And yeah, so I’m just teaching Guinness World Tour jam, just, you know, all the holistic approach that you’d run, all the components were pre roll together, and showing them how every thing that they’ve learned to that point has come together and financial advice to produce a SOA, and to be honest with you, Jason, the audio received coming through the students. So always are they producing from what they’re learning? I would actually match it to a lot of advisors that have said in the past, and I used to do a lot of audits. And it’s fantastic.

James Wrigley
Is is the there’s a lot. There’s a lot written about declining advisor numbers, you know, all the people that have lifted financial advice over the last couple of years. Is Is there people coming through the university system that have an interest in getting into financial advice? You’re you’re doing some subjects in relation to that, but do you think there’s, there’s people coming through that have an interest or is it only a trickle that are coming out of the universities?

Daniel Jackson
So some say the numbers come up Again, I think it’s good in one sense, because a lot of the decline in the, with the financial services should was all the changes and everything. And we’ve got people coming in now that want to be advisors that want to help people passionate to join our profession. And it’s because we’re now surrounded by a lot of advisors that stayed in the industry that were passionate. So we’re leading example, everything to do with ensemble, coffee, James, social media that we’ve actually now put in great tracking new, new talent. Because they want to be just like us and say, Well, we did.

James Wrigley
Yeah, it’s interesting. You mentioned that. So you know, some of the videos and things I’ve put in different places, I’m actually noticing there, there have been multiple, not like this, hundreds of them. But there will be multiple occasions when people asking me, what did you do? How did you get into the industry, how to become a financial advisor? These kinds of questions, so and they tend to be coming from younger people. Yeah, so maybe there’s a there is increasing interest in in it because we could desperately need more financial advisors and more people like Eugene going through the through the py, whether they are straight out of high school, whether they’re doing it a little bit later after having a family. But

Jennifer Laing
I guess the biggest problem with the with my end of the entering the industry is that there is a lack of a clear pathway. So it’s all good and well to want it. But what do you do after the degree that is becoming clearer over time, but it was murky for a while

James Wrigley
you were kind of lucky in in the role that you’ve picked up because of the studies you were doing in Sydney. But then you’re like here, most people start off in a client services team. So that overall, although might get a job as an associate advisor, if they’re coming in as they’ve got a little bit a little bit more life experience behind them rather than a 21 year old, fresh out of university, they might go into associate advisor role, but that tends to be the pathway that we have here Client Services team are associated advisor.

Jennifer Laing
situation.

James Wrigley
It does absolutely, depending on which business you end up in, whether it’s a smaller business, whether it’s a bigger business,

Jennifer Laing
and as you said life experience makes a difference as well. Yeah, for sure.

James Wrigley
Associate advisor that I just had is is is moved on, but it bounced around a whole lot of different jobs before getting into financial advice. And his life experiences showed in the in the work that he was doing was different to a 21 year old just straight out of university. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you both for joining me. It’s been a pleasure to speak with you this morning. Jen, good to have you in the industry. I think Daniels Lucky’s got a he’s got a good one there. He’s very lucky.

Jennifer Laing
I’m taken.

James Wrigley
finished the podcast but I say recruiters stay away. She’s she’s taken it sounds very happy. And in her role, so good on you that the two of you are making it work. And I think if anyone can take anything from this, that people heading through the professional year doesn’t. You don’t need to be employing people that believe in the same city or town as you that can attend the same office as you.

Jennifer Laing
I guess it does need to be made clear though that work. Remote doesn’t just happen. It’s is work. Yeah, it is something you have to work at.

James Wrigley
It’ll work you have it but the two of you clearly have made it work as well. It could have could have not but you’re both adapted. As you said it was a bit weird in the beginning having the Zoom running the whole time but but hey, it works for you. So I think there’s a there’s a bit of value in that for anyone that might be listening as well.

Daniel Jackson
We will release a video about First Day to everyone a couple of years down the track server and see what I was really like to

James Wrigley
see you’ve got that recorded the first day. But look back and check on it. Once you’ve taken over the east coast of Australia, as you said once it released that to the world currently. Well. Great to speak with you both. Appreciate you joining me on such late notice. See you soon.

Jennifer Laing
Thank you for having us.