#413 Maks Mashkivskyy – Transcript

James Wrigley
Hello welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I’m James Wrigley. I’ve got the pleasure of speaking with with Maks and I’m gonna get him to pronounce his surname in a second because we’re just hanging before I’m going to completely butcher it but But Maks from CBD Advisory how do we say your surname?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Hi, James. Great to be here. It’s Mashkivskyy. I can’t blame you for for being fearful and butchering it. It is quite long. About 14 letters. I’m from the Ukraine, that’s why.

James Wrigley
So yeah, right. Thanks for Thanks for joining me today for the podcast. We the angle that we’re going to take with with this, and we’ll see what the conversation flows is around this kind of career, career change into financial advice, Maks, you’ve used as much as you’re an advisor. Now you you weren’t in financial advice to begin with. And I think lots of people will have seen certainly people in the industry will have seen a lot of the press around the number of advisors that have left the industry increasing demand for financial advice. And, and certainly one way that, that businesses or at least the industry or profession at large can kind of look to try and do something about that is is trying to get people like you to do a career change from wherever they might have been before into into financial advice. So maybe x tell us a little bit about what you’re up to at the moment. So you’re an advisor with CB D advisory tell us a bit about CBD advisory and and what you’re up to at the moment.

Maks Mashkivskyy
Yeah, so we’re a family. Family Practice was founded by the director Terrapin, a Juris back I think that he is ago. He’s he’s been he’s been the sole director of the company. And then his daughter is now the general manager. And the two of them had this wonderful team together. And I came in about three years ago.

James Wrigley
Now, how big How big is the team?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Yes. So the team is we have about 10 people on shore, three advisors. I was on the fourth now we have one advisor on maternity leave. So three at the moment in the office. And then we have three staff members overseas as well.

James Wrigley
Where’s Where are they based from?

Maks Mashkivskyy
From Philippines In the Philippines? Okay. Yep, yep. Right. And we service around about 100 clients. And we’re holistic advisors as well. So yeah, well, insurance.

James Wrigley
Any particular demographic of clients particular niche or anything like that?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Not really, not really. We’re quite open. So so. So really, there’s the service offering is, is divided into three segments. accumulators are the ones that I would typically look after. So people who are 2535, just starting out their financial journey, usually high incomes, low assets, and we help them grow, grow their asset base, invest in money appropriately gets some cover in place to protect them, make sure their estate plans are getting done as well. The senior adviser looks after slightly older demographic typically. And then Terry usually looks after high net worth clients, those that are just nearing retirement peak of their asset base, and he helps them to transition to retirement journey.

James Wrigley
Country. And and it’s kind of three distinct demographics of clients, and, and three sounds like kind of three, three advisors doing different things with different, different people how to do that, and you might not have experienced it just yet. But how do you is the idea that as someone moves through that journey, they go from another 25 to 35 year age bracket to the next one into the next one as they go through those three different stages that they would move on to a different advisor? Or would you work with that group of clients, and as you get older, and they get older, you you start to work with them differently and then eventually start to work with them differently again, when they’re 60 and retired?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Yeah, it’s a great question. I think at the moment, that divide is more reflective of where the current state of the businesses and the current client base is. So those clients that have been with Terry, historically, for 2530 years, they’re more accustomed to working with him. So that’s, that’s the clients that he would look after. And it just so happens to be that they have a larger balance, and a certain set of needs, that may not be the same for clients that, you know, 25 to 35 years old. And yes, the idea, I think, as you rightly said, would be for the for me to work with those clients over the years and then transition them. So continue looking after them for a long time. And then as their needs change be able to accommodate for them. So now essentially, we don’t want to make sure we want to make sure we work the same group of clients with the same face that they see they’re familiar with us. Because there’s a certain level of coaching and comfort that that goes hand in hand with with giving good advice. And if we kind of want to make sure that that stays across

James Wrigley
and that’s a pretty long standing business idea. And I don’t know the stats in the financial advice space, but but I wouldn’t imagine there’s too many businesses that have been around for the best part of nearly 30 years. In financial advice. Has it always been financial advice business?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Correct. I do I do remember distinctly Terry saying that they used to do mortgage broking at some point in the past. But over the last 1015 years at least it has been just financial advice. Yeah. Right. And yeah, you’re probably right. It is. It’s quite a fragmented industry. And you would you will find a lot of businesses that have been around for so long.

James Wrigley
Yeah, I can arrange it probably find. More commonly, there’s accounting businesses that have been around for that long and the accounting business might also offer financial advice services. But but if you’re, if it’s just financial advice, mortgage broking business, really without that, that accounting element to it. I would dare say there’s probably not too many businesses that have been around for that long. So obviously doing something right if, if they’ve been around for that long, that’s fantastic. Now, as I said at the start, we wanted to spend a fair chunk of the podcast today just talking about this idea of a career change. So whilst you’re working financial advice at the moment, you said, You’ve been there for nearly three years is that we said,

Maks Mashkivskyy
yes, I’ve been at advisor for three years in an advisor for about a year.

James Wrigley
Yep. And so what were you doing? What were you doing prior to working in financial advice? Like you, you look young, how old are you? I’m 2626. Okay, so take us through your your earlier journey, finished school, uni, whatever, you know, tell us that bit of story and where you’re working in the beginning? Sure, absolutely.

Maks Mashkivskyy
So I went to high school finished year 12, and then went straight to university. So that would have been around at 19. I did a four year commerce degree invest in New South Wales, it’s not the usual degree, usually a commerce degree is about three years longer, because I had some work experience included as part of my part of my degree. Now, my degree was in accounting and finance. And a lot of the people I was around at that time, you know, they really saw their future career as being one of three things that you know, you’re either investment banker, lawyer or a failure. Really, it was this mentality of, you know, I have to get into banking, I have to get into asset management, that was the top tier sort of high performance culture, that high performance, high return culture that all these young, aspiring professionals want it to be in. And I sort of did follow that trend. I went to management consulting straight out of university. So to finish the four year degree, and I went into a top tier US firm, and I worked there for two years. And that’s what I did. Before I joined the financial advisory game. I did however, know about financial advice beforehand, I did a small internship with an advisor back at uni. If it wasn’t for that experience, and that exposure, to be honest, I wouldn’t have had this list. And there’s these tailwinds in place that makes this industry so lucrative. Yeah. And

James Wrigley
so that, that that placement internship that you did was was that part of your kind of one year work experience that you did as part of the degree or was it something that you did over and above the requirements?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Above? Actually, yeah, by sheer coincidence that essentially, it was a colleague of mine on my dad’s that had a financial advisor, they spoke very highly often he said, you know, Maks isn’t doing anything over the summer, why don’t you go and have a chat to so and so and, and see if he can give you a couple of weeks a week experience. So I went out to Parramatta and and work with this financial advisor. Net George, wonderful guy, I think he’s still in the industry as well. And he just of the two week course just gave me a really good exposure to what he does day to day.

James Wrigley
Fantastic. And so what what what were you doing in that in those couple of weeks.

Maks Mashkivskyy
So what ended up happening was, essentially, I was his little, basically his associate for those two weeks right? Now, he runs a relatively established practice. And again, I haven’t spoken to him for for quite some time. But this was, this was the case back when I was there. And he runs an established practice. And all he did was just have me involved in reviewing a couple of clients, essentially. And while he was developing his strategy for those clients, he said, Well, why don’t you go away and see if you can come up with a strategy of some sort, see what you think we should do for these clients. And then I’d spend the majority of my day googling things, trying to find out information, you know, learning things about personal financial management, from the get go, because I had no education back then in that area. But essentially, I’d come back and say, This is what I think. And he said, Oh, well, 80% of what I think is the same, but hey, have you considered these 2020 things? And we know, he just sort of educated me on some of the little details that I was missing that practitioners would know. But it was just a really good way of understanding and getting good experience into how pragmatic helping people manage their finances really is it’s not that foreign. It’s not aeronautical engineering. It’s actually quite straightforward. And most people can really help out just by by having basic knowledge.

James Wrigley
And that’s fantastic. And so you didn’t do any financial planning subjects as part of your commerce degree.

Maks Mashkivskyy
No, no, it was very it was corporate financing.

James Wrigley
Yeah, right. Yeah, so I did one. I did one financial planning subject as part of my degree and, and I don’t recall doing terribly well as I passed. And I know that I definitely passed it. But I wouldn’t say it was one of my better, better subjects, I had no idea what it was all about. Being in some lecture and some guy came. Car review, I don’t know if someone that can remember, came in a suit and stood at the front, they were practicing financial advisor and spoke about something and had to try and learn about the Super system. Here I am working in financial advice. So what was the say, Wait, a couple of years in management consulting, what was the what was the turning point for you to say, actually, and I’ll did this financial advice, stuff that I spent two weeks doing an internship seems like maybe something that I want to want to spend a bit of a bit more time in him, what was the turning point there what happened?

Maks Mashkivskyy
So really, it was a, it was a turning point. There are two driving factors really, what pushed me out of consulting and what pushed me into financial place. What pushed me out of consulting was, I suppose the the work life balance, it’s quite a challenging industry to to maintain a work life balance in and the exposure to certain industries wasn’t there. And this is a lot of a lot, a lot of this has to do with the, with the type of work that your your firm is contracted to do. So really, it’s out of your control, you’re allocated to a project, you’re allocated to an industry, and you sort of stick to it and get and get the work done. So that wasn’t very appealing to me. And given I have a finance background, I wanted a bit of exposure in that finance sector. But also, what pushed me out was the fact that I was helping these multibillion dollar conglomerates make a little bit more money, you know, put an extra number at the bottom line and a p&l. And really, I didn’t feel like that satisfaction was there in terms of actually seeing tangible benefits for people. Because at the end of the day, the employees and these companies that we would consult to that still get their pay, the senior executive manager might get a bit of a bigger bonus, but really, it wouldn’t, wouldn’t make much of a change to their life. And you never got that satisfaction, for putting in crazy hours of working. And finally, as a migrant into this country, I was involved quite intimately in my parents finances. So basically, they didn’t speak English very well, they weren’t financially astute. So I did a lot of that financial management for them. And I did feel like it’s something that I was quite good at and enjoy doing. And you saw that if you were just armed with basic facts and knowledge, you could help people with financial position, you could help them with negotiating things with their bank, with utilities company with a telco. And I wanted to apply that to my everyday essentially. So what other industry allows you to do that, but also keep that client interaction, that level of professionalism, educate people and get that reward and satisfaction and keep a work life balance? Because let’s face it, it is, it is a big selling point, in my personal opinion as a young person. And long story short, I reached out to Angela, who’s the general manager here. And she said, Well, why don’t you come in and we have a chat and see if you can be an associate for Terry.

James Wrigley
So yes, I’m interested in how to that. So you said you’d come to this conclusion that the management consulting wasn’t for you that that you helping make some massive company, a few more dollars. And maybe it kind of sounds like you got a bit more satisfaction from actually seeing the benefit that you’re making, or you could make in the financial advice base with the individual person kind of the end? The person that’s benefiting from your advice is the person that’s sitting in front of you? How did that? How did how did you then go about finding somewhere somewhere to go and and what was your experience in it had a job and had a couple of years work? Experience? Nothing, nothing terribly much in financial advice. But how did you go in terms of making that jump? Was it just the first place that you spoke to? Did you have to speak to a few different places that had it? How did you end up with the job that you’ve got now?

Maks Mashkivskyy
It’s a great question. I suppose the first thing I’ll answer is, how would I How would you go about getting a job in this industry, if you don’t have a lot of experience and then the only thing I’d say to that is, there are a lot of skills that are very transferable from management, consulting into financial advice. A lot of skills. In fact, it’s a very similar job it’s client facing. And there’s a lot of there’s there’s some technical elements that you need, but a lot of them have to do with how you present information to people, whether it’s written or verbal. And those were the skills I relied on when I was doing my interviews to essentially compensate for the fact that I had very little work experience. I knew about the industry. I did some research on it. I knew that tailwinds that were happening. And this was around about the time when the Royal Commission was just wrapping up. It was the aftermath you know the the discard battlefield of advice and advisors leaving and in hordes. It was it was quite a bad time. To get into the industry, but nonetheless, I saw the writing on the wall that a lot of practitioners would leave. There’s these attractive tailwinds. The demand is still there, anything that’s going up. So, the fact that I did my homework, the fact that I had those skills, the fact that I could speak well and speak to clients was what got me across the line, I believe. In terms of research, I did speak to a few firms. The CBD advisory guys that I did end up joining, were very attractive, firstly, geographically, I live nearby. Secondly, I knew about them. I knew that the family that ran this business, and they spoke very highly, though spoken of very highly. So I knew I was going to get to a good place, and it was a family business and small. And then those were the things that I was sort of looking for.

James Wrigley
Yeah, right. And so you did an interview of sorts with them, they offered you a job to come on as an associate and and so how long did you spend doing that, that job of an associate, and how was the learning curve for you in that role?

Maks Mashkivskyy
I spent a year in that particular role. So what ended up happening was, essentially, I just came in at the right time. So Terry was the principal of the business was looking for, actually sorry, he did have an associate that one time I was working for a different advisor for three months. And then the associate that Terry was working with, he left. And so there was an opportunity to work with essentially the principal business, I did that role for 12 months. And in nine of those months, I was doing my grad diploma. With Kaplan, I had to do, I think seven out of the eight units, but I did all that anyway. And it’s possible to actually overlap them a little bit with Kaplan. So they have five semesters I believe, or five, or whatever we call them, study periods. And you did to subject in the second, third and fourth and fifth study periods.

James Wrigley
So it’s pretty full on full time job and doing two extra subjects to your right to

Maks Mashkivskyy
full time work and studying two subjects per study period, but I did manage to get get through it and commerce degree obviously helped. It’s not essential. But if you if you don’t have that finance background, you will find yourself spending a lot more time doing that the study, I had a lot of that background and place to to sort of help me. And I did that for for 12 months and got my grad diploma roundabout December 2021.

James Wrigley
Yep. Good. So here’s what’s going to be one of my, one of my questions to around the, around the kind of bridging that education piece, you had an accounting finance degree and so so that that’s helpful. I, I get from time to time, people reaching out to me saying, I know this financial advice stuff, I see somebody who videos, it looks really interesting, you know, how do I kind of get into the space and, and my, my two typical response back to them is actually look at the education pathway that you need to take first off, because depending on what you’ve done in the previously, you might have to do a whole lot of study, or maybe you only have to do a tiny little bit. And so it sounds like in your case, because of the degree that you had that that that would have got your long way towards the current education standards that are required. And then you just had to do the grid, the Graduate Diploma to kind of bridge the bridge the gap. Have you done any other study other than that, I’ve had to do anything else.

Maks Mashkivskyy
All I did after so, I mean, I did a CFA Level One back when I was at uni, here it is more of a extracurricular activity.

James Wrigley
That’s not who does that as extracurricular.

Maks Mashkivskyy
To be fair, I did want to I did see myself going into equity research at some point. Yeah. And that’s why because CFA is a very well known accreditation in that area. I’m glad I didn’t know. But it was just a really good wrap up of my finance degree here very challenging, but I would say also very rewarding. If anyone out there wants to challenge themselves and as a $1,500, you know, $1,500 lying around, then that’s something that you should look into, because it is really good. So I did have that. And I did also do three subjects to Master’s degree in financial planning, which I haven’t finished yet. I have to do my fourth. Good, but no other study. Yeah. And it’s what you mentioned before in relation to bridging that gap. I’d say a lot of people in this country, young people do commerce degrees, or commerce, business degrees or sort of some sorts. And I find that if you want to get into financial planning, having done that finance degree or commerce degree or business degree, it’s a very, very small gap to bridge a lot of skills and a lot of knowledge is very transferable. I mean ethics and certain specificities in terms of super environment and stuff like that do need to be learned, but it’s really not that much.

James Wrigley
I, I didn’t I didn’t know about this whole world of extra, extra studying. It was an idea I did a commerce degree as well. He’s older than you, over 10 years older than you, but I did a commerce degree way back when as well and, and my first job and then I was looking for other jobs. And it wasn’t until I sat with a recruitment agent. And they said to me, I want to know the studying, have you done? What do you mean? What other studying have I done? I’ve done my Commerce degree, can I? Can I just get a job? Now? She’s like, No, you came from, as you just pointed out, lots of people do a commerce or a business degree? Do you need to look to do some of these extra things through the likes of Kaplan and so I did a Kaplan, but that’s what got me into a Kaplan course. And then, and then image eventually ended up going down the financial planning path. Didn’t didn’t realize. And now, with the financial planning industry, there’s this much stricter education requirements that are pushing people down that path anyway. Previously, you didn’t really need it so much. So I guess if you had any had any tips for anyone that’s considering a career change, whether it’s from management, consulting, or anywhere else? What What would you what would you suggest that they do? Where should they start? If they’re considering a career change?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Yeah, great question. The first thing I did, and my consulting background didn’t kind of help me with it, is analyze the industry extensively. Right. So before you, if you have a job somewhere and you’re earning a living, that’s great, but you’re thinking of changing before you make any move, I would do a lot of due diligence. And that’s what I did with financial planning. And I basically sat down did a whole bunch of research, talk to some people that are new in industry, to understand if this is an industry that’s, that’s attractive to go into, right, because there’s a whole lot of effort and risk that you need to take to change jobs to change industries. And that effort has to be worthwhile. So I did my research, I found that the number of practitioners is falling in the industry quite rapidly, I think it’s now halved from its peak. While demand is still high, and demand is going to go up. There’s this enormous transition of wealth, younger people are becoming more aware of the finance needs and the lack of education in it. So there’s this enormous demand that Valve advisors fill up. So I said, Listen, this is a great time to get in the same time, the regulations, peaking, education requirements seem to have stabilized because they were changing quite quite rapidly at that point in time. This is great. Oh, and I like talking to people. I like helping people, I have a finance background. So all those things are kind of, you know, pluses for me green flags. And that’s what, what really sold the job to me. And there was a net, it was anonymous risk. I mean, I took a massive pay cut, I think I took close to two and a half time paper, right? So I went from, from six digits to two digit salary. And they said that was worthwhile, because in the long run, I saw myself staying in the industry, and that pay cut being worthwhile in the long run. So to anyone looking to change industries, I’d say the financial advice is a great industry to move into, especially if you like talking to people, if you like helping people, if you enjoy finance and numbers, but not not too extreme, and when we don’t do crazy calculations and, and models and Excel, but nonetheless, you do need to be at least friendly with numbers, because people do rely on that. And you do help to plug that technical gap. And if you do enjoy all those things, and this is a great industry to be in but do your research. And make sure that you’re clear on the education requirements, as you said, because they can be quite onerous. Or if you have a background or a degree in the relevant field there could be quite light and quite quickly you’ll find yourself being a py advisor and becoming an advisor helping people

James Wrigley
and it’s interesting that you I was gonna follow up and you and you just touched on it into is also also the kind of the reality of changing careers and I’ve spoken to others that have wanted to get into financial advice and they had somewhat established careers in whatever that that we’re doing. To be to it at the moment is the reality of the salary drop to say, when you eventually become an advisor and your progress and so forth, you may very well be earning the same if not more as where you’re coming from but but if you’re going into a brand new industry, you kind of have to go backwards to a to a to a degree go into some some form of a more entry level type role before you can do your studies and look you know, learn on the job and so forth and then your salary starts to go back up again as you as you move forward. And so you’d need to prepare yourself and position yourself for that and so if you’re young and living at home and so forth maybe a drop in the pay card isn’t isn’t quite such a big deal but if you’re you know got a mortgage and a family and you know other people relying on you earning a particular income then that can then that can be an issue and and you really just need to prepare for it. I guess it’s financial either you do some financial planning on your own, on your own on your own self to say okay, well if our salary is going to drop, I need to have this much money in the bank so that we can get Bye for a period of time before, before we start moving on.

Maks Mashkivskyy
To that due diligence sub the point that I raised. Just a quick side, I mean that you need to be aware that there are some industries paying very high salaries and entry level jobs in this industry don’t necessarily pay that well. And if you do, if you’ve done your due diligence, you’ll be aware of that. And as you said, I do it earlier, rather than later, I was quite young, when I moved, I did live at home. And that didn’t make it feasible for me to take that pay cut for a year.

James Wrigley
So what’s next for you? Like you’re incredibly well spoken? And you know, who you’ve done tons of research by the sounds of things on the space? What’s, what’s next for you? What do you see the opportunities for, for financial advice? And for yourself? Personally?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Yeah, it’s a great question. So for me, I say the thing with this industry, as well as I find that, unlike a lot of other industries, which have a very clear, very rigid and long hierarchy, this industry doesn’t really you sort of tap out a financial advisor, and you can’t really become a super high senior financial adviser, you’re just a financial advisor, and really their job. Although it looks different across the industry, it’s pretty much the same in terms of what the skills are you need are what you really do. So really, it’s about building yourself, building a name for yourself in the industry, and making people see you as a reliable, technically competent practitioner. And you build networks around yourself, for people to refer to you and you refer to others. So I’m talking about like accountants and solicitors, and really would do say that an advisor is a conduit to a person. So you speak to an advisor, and if an advisor is things that you need to account over refer to you want they, if they think you need a solicitor, they’ll refer you to one. And you really become this, this the central node for a person’s financial well being connected with all these other practitioners. So in terms of what I want to do, I just want to be, firstly, I want to service the clients that I’m looking after now very well, I want them to know me and want them to feel comfortable with me. And really grow that relationship. Terry always told me that being a financial adviser is like a, it’s being a therapist and suit really, a lot of this job is, is that emotional intelligence, being able to talk to people being able to support them, and a lot of the time, it’s just a conversation, hey, how you doing? How are things how’s your family, your grandkids? What any travel, you’ve got planned, and you sort of weave finance into it, oh, you’re planning to go on a four week holiday in the next year, cool, we might need to withdraw some money, I think I’ll do it like this. Anyway, keep telling me about your your plans, how’s retirement treating you. So I think you can always become a better practitioner, you can always learn to do that better. It doesn’t mean just because you’re a financial advisor, you can progress that you’re learning stops, you have to keep learning in this industry. And that’s another great thing about it, you have to learn, because it’s mandated, but you also should learn because there’s a lot of interesting ways to acquire information and a lot of ways that you can continue growing yourself as a person.

James Wrigley
And then your writing, in that you, you work through associated advisor and so forth and become a financial adviser and you look to try and become a better and better financial advisor, and you never stop learning. But then for for some people not not all, then then it becomes this idea of trying to build a build a team or build a business build, you know, build, build some some scale around you. And whether you do that in, in the current businesses. And this isn’t just necessarily conversation with you, it’s just just in general is, is whether you try to do that around you or you go off and you do it on your own. And I’ve gone down the path of I am a part owner of the business that I work in as a small part owner of it but rather than go out and do my own thing, James directly from scratch, it’s kind of building a team and, and growing within the business. So that then you take on more of a more of a management type role of a of a team of people, and you’re responsible for their own career progression and so forth. That’s the bit that now starts to give me a lot of satisfaction. You get to a point where you you do a really good job with your clients and it sounds like you’re well and truly on that path. And then and then and then look for what’s going to kind of stimulate you and keep you engaged and so forth going forward. Yeah,

Maks Mashkivskyy
absolutely. I think you know, once you do your clients, right, well once you do right by your clients, everything else falls into place, who you work for how you work for as a sole proprietor or as part of a bigger company. Whether you’re an advisor or director doesn’t really matter if you do right by people and gets out there and this is a good green flag big green flag up against your name then then your name will be well known and people will flock to you and look for you for guidance motif.

James Wrigley
Do you have any you might not have built enough of a profile in the financial advice space just yet but but Do you ever get a younger people talking to you about career change? Or what’s it like in financial advice or anything like that? If you gotten to that? Because I reckon you’d be, you’d be fantastic at it. But have you? Have you had that opportunity to just?

Maks Mashkivskyy
Not really? Yeah. And that truth be told, I think I should also put myself out there make myself better known to people who may be considering that move, and make myself available to them. I did have the pleasure of speaking to some people from ensemble who have a dedicated board specifically for this, which I think is great. Yeah, by the way, if you’re listening to this ensemble is great. It’s almost like a LinkedIn for for advisors. And there’s a dedicated space in it for young advisors and for people who are looking to transition into this industry. And there’s questions that can be posted and questions that can be answered. And I just think it’s a great place for you to start doing that due diligence because instead of you going and Googling a whole bunch of stuff about this industry, go and speak to people who are in it, ask questions.

James Wrigley
That’s it join the ensemble community. There’s a there’s a few in there speaking to someone a couple of weeks ago that has come over from South Africa and the whole thing that that sparked his journey into financial advice in Australia was a couple of posts on the ensemble platform there. So yeah, absolutely. I agree with you with your comments there. And maybe this you know, during this podcast, thanks for coming on. But maybe this podcast is the first of you, putting yourself out there a little bit more and building a bit of a name for your for yourself. Maks, look, thank you for joining me this morning. It’s been a pleasure to get to know you. As I said before, highly well spoken I think CBD advisors onto a winner picking you up could on them. Or we can you might have people beating your door down and trying to get you to go and work full time. I wouldn’t be surprised

Speaker 2
if anyone listening to this podcast has any questions, please feel free to reach out to James and myself. I’ll be happy to give you some more information. Yeah,

James Wrigley
we’ll in the show notes and wherever people might be listening to this from we’ll put some links as to where people can find you on LinkedIn or wherever else if they if they want to have a chat. As I said, Maks, thanks for joining me. pleasure speaking with you. Thank you, James.