Wellness: A Key Foundation for the Practice of the Future #4 – Transcript

Ryan Watson 0:00
Welcome, Marshall. Thanks for your time today.

Marshall Ross 0:02
Thanks, Ryan. Yeah, great to be part of the podcast. Thanks for having us on.

Ryan Watson 0:06
Yeah. And, and from your point of view, and you know, MLC insurance as well, thank you for sponsoring the series. This is the fourth episode, where we’ll look more specifically to advisors, and have a stay at the top of their game. So obviously, my role at Tribeca, you know, I suppose I stood on one side of the fence for one of a better term. So I’m really interested to lead into to your experience, Marshall, from product manufacturers point of view and how you get this insight into different device practices. And they have a, as we said earlier, they really stay at the top of their game. But I think, as a way to introduce yourself to the audience, Marshall, if we could invest a couple of minutes terms, your background, how you came to be in, in this profession, financial planning.

Marshall Ross 0:52
Yeah, thanks, Ron. So my journey is not dissimilar to a lot of people, I suppose in that I had a family background, my father was a financial planner. And in Funnily, that’s something that I was at a breakfast with the minister Stephen Jones last week. And, and he mentioned that as you know, a common pathway to the industry is people come in because they had a relative or a family friend, or whatever, who was a financial planner. And it was true for me. And so my dad ran his own business. So I, you know, was involved in the industry is do some work in there on school holidays and whatnot, and kind of got exposed to the industry a little bit. Yeah, long story short, you know, he kind of reasonably retired further kind of 1012 years now and exited the business right at the time that I was kind of finishing uni and coming into the industry and I got a job at one path in the new business area, there is my kind of first role and then it moved on from there to a couple of different roles and my current role with MLC, insurances, risk and strategy advice managers to kind of look after all of our education proposition for advisors.

Ryan Watson 2:00
Okay. Maybe a bit of a random question, Marsha, could you see a time in the future? Where you, we might, I suppose, be an active advisor,

Marshall Ross 2:09
that either the dark side or the light side that lead I wasn’t sure yet, or the

Ryan Watson 2:13
addition that to be honest, given the context, and the sponsor in the light of its ad unit currently employed me but yeah,

Marshall Ross 2:19
video where you sit? Yeah. And I will get something like that to get that question. Now and again. And yeah, I’d certainly never say never to it. I think when you come from that background of being around a small business and a financial planning business daily, and seeing the relationship with the clients and you know, the immense amount of value that it can bring, you certainly get a pretty fond thinking of the financial planning business. So yeah, I’d certainly would never say never, it could happen at some stage, you just don’t know. Okay, cool.

Ryan Watson 2:49
Fantastic. Obviously, the headlines around you know, why you and I are talking today, specific around well being in that greater financial well being paced, you know, from MLC, insurances point of view, what what does what does wellbeing mean to you guys?

Marshall Ross 3:05
Yeah, it’s something that has become increasingly important in both going look about I know, some of the previous episodes have really looked at the ways that advisors can engage clients around well being and that’s something that’s become a lot more prevalent, and, and obviously, MLC insurance, through vivo, and then other insurers through a whole lot of other areas have brought in all of these different methods to engage clients around wellness. But obviously from an advisor perspective, at the same time, over the last few years, we’ve seen this environment where there’s just pressures coming from every different direction. And ultimately, that’s impacted the ability for advisors who, let’s face it, are the most important partner for a retail life insurance business to productively give advice and recommend insurance to clients and productively engaged in their businesses. So the it’s really important to take an interest in thinking about how advice businesses can better a short look after the clients and their well being but also, look after your own well being first, I think I saw the quote the other day, you know, it’s a bit like fitting your oxygen mask before no fitting those of others. It’s all great to want to help people but it needs to be able to have yourself sorted out first,

Ryan Watson 4:20
yet spot on. So it sounds like from MLCs insurances point of view, Marshall is much more of a focus on on the helping pace and understanding advisors practices, and obviously particularly what their clients need, and then how do you come to them with genuine solutions that add value, both in a qualitative space, but also a quantitative space as well?

Marshall Ross 4:42
Is yeah, there’s different solutions there. I think the obvious ones in in that more kind of quantitative space, he talks about some of the practical solutions around actually making it a bit easier in in your business. So they’re things all insurers are introduced around, you know, improving processes, things like taking all iterations online in quotes online and trying to save some time, things like that help in that space. If you’re going more into that qualitative space, you mentioned that some of those things around, you know, some of the well being propositions through vivo, for example, and then being made available to advisors as well as clients, you know, that offers things like you know, your mental health support, you have nutrition consults, if fitness consults, things that can add a little bit more around the edges of some of those practical things.

Ryan Watson 5:29
Now, given that you mentioned at Marshall, and I’ve got to put my hands up here, because I’ve got some slightly notes around this, can we do a bit of a deeper dive around that? What that actually means? How people are actually engaging with it the most are really keen to learn more, I’m sure our listeners are as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Marshall Ross 5:45
So vivo is something that’s available to all policyholders of their mental care insurance and their their family members. But also then last year was made available to advisors as well. So have in their staff importantly, which I think is overlooked is, you know, there’s a whole proposition there around how we look after our staff. So it has through the vivo virtual care, a whole range of services available from mental health navigator, which is your mental health support, fitness consults, the exercise, physiologist, nutrition consults with the dietitian. And then also includes things like your expert medical opinion out, I’m sure, many that listeners probably have heard of best doctors, it was often called in the past, and that’s been around for many, many years. And that’s basically the the modern iteration of that. So it encompasses all of those services that that people can take up to set themselves up to get a bit more out of their, their well being day to day. Cool.

Ryan Watson 6:43
And what’s, you know, general rule or talking in generalities, obviously, Marshall, what’s the caretaker of those services? From clients, advisors and stuff within the office? I imagine there’s, there’s plenty of opportunity,

Marshall Ross 6:57
there is there’s plenty of opportunity. Yeah, we’d certainly always looking to see those numbers increase, I think we’ve gradually seen an increase in a quiet space, people wanting to take it up. And it’s relatively new to the advisor space. So there’s been been limited uptake in that space. In saying that, by no, there is a few examples where people have engaged in and gotten a lot of value. So, you know, speaking to a few of the BDMS around the country, they’ve had a few particularly around the expert medical opinion scenarios where they’ve been able to get, you know, some really important reassessments of conditions for people that they’re they are really struggling with another bit of a dead end with the current treatment, etc, that have kind of opened a bit of a new world, and then the opportunities for recovery. So there’s a lot of opportunity there if people want to take a walk. And yeah, have a chat to your local BDM or jump on it the vivo wellbeing website and have a bit of a look at it.

Ryan Watson 7:59
Okay, fantastic. Yeah, it’s good. It’s good to know, like I said, you know, whilst on the host, I don’t did haven’t known about it, not a day to day practitioner. So it’s good. For the listeners, they can obviously go the website and find out more about that. key part of today, as well, masters, what we wanted to explore is what you’re saying, in advice practices. You know, if we start with the importance of advisors, and then looking after their own mental health, when they’re working with their clients, what are you seeing in that space? In terms of from advisors?

Marshall Ross 8:32
Yeah, I think we’re starting to see a more. Because there’s a bit more of a reflective attitude, I think, from advisors around it to kind of acknowledge that we’ve been through a really challenging period, but also acknowledge to say that we’ll know if or not perhaps, you know, operating at my best in this space, it’s probably hard for me to do really well for my clients. And if that’s my ultimate end goal, and I want to get great outcomes from my clients, I need to have myself kind of in this frame of mind to be happy going to work productive in my workplace and in my business, and productive with my staff and my team to make sure that everyone’s happy moving forward. So I think we’re a bit of an interesting place with financial advice businesses, we’re seeing a bit more of a focus on that than we’ve seen in the last five to 10 years.

Ryan Watson 9:23
I was reading some stats the other day as well, through the leadership coaches got a lot to do with financial advice in Australia and I think gyms have that mental health space and people being affected. I won’t do a justice because it can’t remember the specific number, but it was a significant portion of the financial advisor population that has been affected to some degree around mental health and the challenges over the last five to seven years. I was really surprised,

Marshall Ross 9:49
I’m sure, yeah, it’d be impossible not to I mean, there’s obviously various degrees on that spectrum, you know, from more acute symptoms to you know, things that are there. SnowSport perhaps there are things that can creep up to you it more of your day to day stress, and that feeling of busyness or, or or anxiety around work, etc, just because the load is getting large. So there’s obviously a spectrum that it’s on. And it’s a matter of I think of a starting point, just sitting back and having it think about what that actually looks like yourself. And then, you know, thinking about, Okay, well, what can I actually do about it to perhaps try and, you know, make it ultimately, we want to make it more fun, if we can, and that will help people feel better in their business.

Ryan Watson 10:30
Yeah, and you mentioned that term around, you know, helping people in their business and your role. And something that binds or this collegiate piece around the financial advisory industry is that we all got in to help people or to help clients, no matter what your value proposition is, whether it’s more qualitative merits, or quantitative, activites, whatever it is, everyone got here to put clients in a bit better position and help. But it’s interesting. The challenge is there’s been such a self focus with compliance and everything else. I’m not saying it got lost, but there’s just been so much noise, it’s coming back to I know, it’s probably overused around purpose. But coming back to why we’re genuinely here, and I love the fact Marcia, you brought up making it fun again, there’s nothing more fun around to see a client where a light bulb moment goes off, they really buy into what you’re doing. And then they’re empowered to go away and execute the strategy. I think fun is very underrated neutral.

Marshall Ross 11:23
It is it is that I think, you know, ultimately, that’s the driver is those kind of positive feedbacks is yes, seeing that moment with a client or helping a client with a claim and seeing the impact for them and their family. There’s little moments that yeah, they’re the little penny drops, that goes gee, it is worth it. Now, it’s frustrating at times, but it really is worth it to get some of those outcomes. So I think you’re right, the focus perhaps hasn’t been on that from purpose perspective. And I think that with a lot of the change that we’re now seeing come through, the government has probably big knowledge that and we’re seeing that, you know, it really is now about thinking about the client and getting more financial advice to to more clients and getting better outcomes for clients. So I think we’re at a stage now in kind of the life cycle of the industry, where we’re in a position to look at that again, and think about well, let’s get back to actually looking after more clients and getting good outcomes for clients.

Ryan Watson 12:19
Yeah, get back to why we got here in the first place, if that makes sense. Get back to that. Why

Marshall Ross 12:24
for sure. Yeah. Okay.

Ryan Watson 12:26
So, you know, we’re thinking about examples of what you’re seeing in advice practices, and we understand how important a mindset is, you know, what are some what are some examples, you’ve seen around advisors who are doing this really well who are practicing some good self care?

Marshall Ross 12:41
Yeah, I think some things that I’ve seen work really well and the benefits of hell, obviously, in my current role was kind of national based around the country, but in a previous life was more local, based in a in a BDM type role. And some of the benefits were really around seeing people start to band together at a local level a little bit better, you know, thinking about well, can I find five to 10 people in my local advice community that want to catch up for a coffee once a month or a breakfast once a quarter? Or you know, we had a few who were all keen golfers and would catch up for early morning, Friday game once a month, get a like minded group together of advisors had never met each other before. But after doing that for five, six months, now people start to enjoy seeing that same person again, or how did you go with that client? You mentioned last month? How did you go with that? Are you hiring someone new in your business? You know, did you end up getting that sorted out? That new software you were doing? And how did that work out for you, you know, you build these relationships and these sounding boards. And you actually start to realize that some of the problems that you think are exclusive to you, in your business, are probably shared by your mate down the road, who’s going through the same thing, and probably has some learnings they can share with you about it.

Ryan Watson 13:58
I love the facts that you’ve mentioned that so because I know when I started out in advice, Oh, 506. And then I went to the AFA conference, you know, seven, it was there that I met a number of advisors, Brad Fox as well. So he’s a chairman here at Tribeca, obviously, your partner to share out as well. But the point being around the relationships that were built, and we ended up setting up a lunch on a quarterly basis, and we get together and we share the wins and share the learnings that old school but works really well. There wasn’t a problem that we couldn’t solve or improve amongst us. And I think it’s easy to say COVID in the life but being far more collegiate. I know, you know, throughout my journey there’s a lot of people in industry have helped or extended the title would have a coffee. That’s the I love the fact that that’s part of you know what you’re doing or what you’re saying, Marshall, it’s so underrated.

Marshall Ross 14:48
It is in the year I will COVID certainly played a part in it that we’ve all kind of had to re reintegrate back into the face to face world after that. But I think also that general busyness and in need fulfilling for product productivity can can feed into it where people think, Well, I just haven’t got time to devote to that because I need to do X Y Zed. But the thing is, is it is actually productive, like taking that time to network, build relationships, share some problems, get some advice, that is very, very productive time. And you’ll find that, let’s say if you had a breakfast, catch up with a few like minded advisors in the morning, and you’re out before nine o’clock and you’re back to the office, you’re energized to take on the day, like you’ve had some great conversations, you’re actually gonna jump in and be more productive than if you hold yourself to the office an hour earlier, and perhaps procrastinated for an hour or had a coffee, try wake yourself up and try and get into things. You’re actually jumping straight into it with a few ideas and ready to go. So I think it’s just around shifting that that perception of what productivity actually it’s,

Ryan Watson 15:52
I think so. And I think the more siloed we are, because, you know, largely, it’s an industry but with this transition to profession that is very much siloed. So there’s licensees and the like, but the ability to not join fought for the ability to like I said, share those wins, share those learnings. There’s not a problem that someone else hasn’t encountered, and for the fact that there are different value propositions and the lie, a lot of you know, under the bonnet of what we do is quite similar tech and the like. So how can we help each other we know there’s never been more clients with which to serve, I think recent surveys in the industry, up to 15,000 advisors, but only 5000 are taking on new clients. So nothing we can’t learn. And there’s plenty of clients to help. It’s always done without being critical. It’s always been part getting out of our own way, and focusing on what’s really important. What are those big rocks, we need to focus on? To help, like you said earlier, help more clients?

Marshall Ross 16:45
Yeah, I think you’re right, it’s that you know, that rising tide floats all boats scenario, when I’ve looked at the data, and the FSC did some data around under insurance last year. And I think when I crunched the numbers on the volume of people in the Australian population, they classified as underinsured, versus the amount of advice we had, you would need to be like an extra 300 clients per advisor to meet that demand. So there’s certainly no shortage of clients out there to look after. So it’s in everyone’s interest to help everyone else there’s more than enough clients to go around to to make everyone very, very busy. If we’re more busy, to your point around, you know, turning down clients have more busy than you’ll ever need to. But,

Ryan Watson 17:26
yeah, so we’ve talked about Marshall advisors, in general, like, if I was to ask you around, you know, thinking of a few advisors who are really good at what they do, you might call up high performers, what would be some key highlights around, I imagine they’ve got really good habits, like what would be some key things around, there are some learnings for the listeners,

Marshall Ross 17:48
I think one of the big learnings in that space that I’ve identified over the years is really this power of delegation, and empowering your team so that he can often feel like you need to do everything yourself. And I know, I can be a little bit like this sometimes as well as you can hang on to things and be a bit of a control freak and want to do it yourself. But the ability to identify where someone in your team and empower them to go out and do some of those tasks in the business then frees the adviser up to do the really productive work that needs to be done with clients and with the business that comes with with client communication as well like empower your team in the face of your clients. Now, they should be expected to speak to your team as well as just yourself and be comfortable doing so. So it takes that pressure off of all my only point of contact with the businesses with my advisor, know where you’ve actually got a team of two or three people more than I’m equally comfortable speaking to, if I need to just take that pressure off and frees up some of that time and then set some proper boundaries as well.

Ryan Watson 18:55
Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting, exploring that a bit further around, I think, is there’s a tendency for any type of professional to just get a bit comfortable what they doing. And I think playing in the micro playing too much in the detail that day to day rhythm. It can just get too comfortable but growing the people around you delegating and then challenge yourself to play in different spaces where we can really add value I think I think there’s some bravery in that. Yeah, it’s it’s an interesting one why we do what we do.

Marshall Ross 19:27
It is and look there’s a great practical technique you can use around the US and UK some of the listeners if they’ve been around the risk industry or MDR T and whatnot for a little while might have seen Russell Collins speak before and and Russell’s a bit of a legend for America in the insurance advice space. But in his book, he’s got a great tool around actually doing a bit of a timesheet for two weeks around the tasks that you can play yourself and then doing a bit of a review at the end of that period to say well, which of these do I actually have to do or which of these could I delegate to someone else within You’ve got that team member already or not. If you don’t have them, what you’ve just built is a job description. You’ve built the job description already for what you’d need, how many hours you need and what you need someone to do. Yeah. And if you’ve already got the person there, yeah, well, here’s exactly what I want you to do. And now I know the tasks and you’ve just freed up X many hours in your diary. So sometimes can be as simple as that to actually then work out, well, then instead of perhaps doing those extra really stressful hours, I don’t need to do that I can focus on the important stuff that I need to do.

Ryan Watson 20:30
Yep. And at the risk Marshall putting you on the spot? Would you have access to that sheet? Is that something where we might be able to put a link in in this podcast when it goes live?

Marshall Ross 20:40
I don’t myself Well, I do have a copy of the book. But I don’t know if it’s online. It’s called skills to succeed. The book by Russell Collins, it is a bit of a in the risk advice space, it’s a bit of a Bible. It’s a a well known book with a lot of good tips and tricks in it.

Ryan Watson 20:55
So if you don’t have it, go out and get it. Absolutely. Yeah, we’ll get at it. Okay, fantastic. So moving more to the impact the advisors you see are having on having on their clients? Are you seeing value propositions in the advice base, you know, evolve to incorporate more of the well being?

Marshall Ross 21:15
Yeah, I think it’s really evolved to be that more holistic view, I think part of it’s a generational thing, because I’ve looked at some research around this as well, when you look at that millennials and Gen Z, particularly that are coming through, and then these people that are now starting to see financial advisors, like they’ve, they’ve young professionals, they’re, they’re in that accumulation phase, they’re going what’s next, I What do I do now with with my money, and the focus for them is not actually on their overall wealth, it’s on, what does it actually do for me? Does it mean that I can do certain hobbies that I enjoy, achieve certain lifestyle goals that I enjoy? Like, that’s what the money actually does for me. So I think, for a value proposition perspective, you know, the advisors who are building that into the conversations to go? Well, by all means, it’s great for us to do all the technical stuff that we do, and we’ve got heaps of knowledge in that space, so we can do it for you. But what we’re actually focusing on is what that means for you, and what that can actually deliver for you. In a lifestyle perspective. That’s where you really cut through to give him that holistic view to clients.

Ryan Watson 22:19
Yeah. And you, you’re seeing more of a move to that space. Obviously, we know, what I would call doing the doing is really important. So kwansei, So minimizing fees, strong returns appropriate, you know, minimizing taxes. That’s, that’s more of a given these days. Is there at ease there this is evolution more into this financial well being space?

Marshall Ross 22:42
There is? Yeah, I think it is, you’re right, all of that is the the given, you know, I think we’ve got such high levels of professionalism now, and knowledge and education and industry, that all that technical side is really the expectation, whereas adding some of that additional value is really important to actually work out. Well. What does that actually mean for you? And also, what’s important to you as a person? You know, is it actually important to you to have $10 million? Are you happy with having $1 million and working part time? You know, it could be different things to different people, it’s not all the same. So whether it’s no investment or superannuation virus or risky advice, people’s individual attitudes and values and beliefs are going to feed into it and more than ever. So that’s the stuff that’s really important to focus on.

Ryan Watson 23:29
Yeah, yeah. And before we started recording this podcast, Marsha, we talked about a, you know, obviously, the importance of risk insurance and take up and the opportunity that’s there. What advice do you have for the listener? Obviously, it is a challenge. There are challenges in terms of doing risk insurance advice these days. You know, let’s let’s dive a bit. Let’s deep dive into this. Where does an advisor start with it’s sitting in their advice process and building a really robust structure around

Marshall Ross 23:59
it? Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned the word structure, because I think that’s important. Because I think the way that the industry has changed so much is we did have kind of this divide, I suppose, in the past where we had advisors who were more risk specialists and advisors who were more say investment specialists, and those two would perhaps see each other at a PD day once a year in exchange pleasantries, and that’s about it. Whereas now, we’ve seen much more of a shift across the market for most advisors and giving holistic advice, you know, when I will get the data, I think the adviser ratings data, and most recently, there was only a very small segment of specialist risk advisors, but 90% still gave some level of risk advice. So from infrequently to frequently, they’re giving some level of risk advice. So the challenge of that is if you’re not doing something very often you tend to get very good at it. So to make it effective, you have to build a bit of a process. So you’ve got to build a process of how you are going to do it when it comes up and then also have a thing about how it fits into that overall financial planning conversation, because I think it’s not a separate conversation. You know, if you’re having a financial planning conversation with a client, you’re already talking about various risks that they’re exposed to whether its risks and their investment strategy risks with their longevity, risks with inflation, there’s all kinds of risks associated with their plan, the risks, their health, they’re just another extension of that that can be tackled in that same conversation. Yeah, and

Ryan Watson 25:25
I think that my sense is the current challenges, we’ve got this space and referencing that same advisor ratings report 150 risk specialists in Australia, I think, when push comes to shove, advisors are probably not delving enough as a rule into this space as much as they used to, because it got difficult. So, you know, working with people in the profession, product manufacturer, you know, people like yourself who can help, I imagine, that’s part of the way that you can help Marsh MLC insurance and the water BDM network as well, helping build a structure and a framework around that as well.

Marshall Ross 25:57
It is I think it’s incumbent, I think, on all participants in the industry to do better in that space, I think I wouldn’t be breaking any news at all to say that we probably haven’t seen as much innovation as we’d like in general in the the insurance space. And that’s for a good reason. That’s because at the same time, as the advisors have been grappling with all of the regulatory and change has been coming through, there’s been layer after layer of corporate regulatory change for insurance, if you think about things like ddo, for example, and unfair contract terms, and audio changes of interest, got resources getting pulled away from innovation to managing all of this regulatory change. So I think we’re starting to see some change in that space. Now, with some more innovation, I think, across the board, we’re seeing more digital uptake, things like digital signatures are pretty widely accepted. Things like quotes and alterations online are starting to become more common. Now. That’s something that in all SeaWiFS recently jumped into, and I think others are looking at as well. So we’re starting to see some things there that will help save some time for advice, but there there’s a lot of work to do. And then in the education space, yeah, it’s around us providing that educational content that can actually help advisors give advice well, and give it efficiently. So we’ve certainly focused on that. And a lot of the work we’ve been doing over the last, you know, six to six to eight months.

Ryan Watson 27:19
Yeah, I don’t think any, and that’s fantastic. And I think there’s also there is significant elements, whereby any type someone like MLC insurance can remove friction from the process, which is great. I think there’s also that education piece. But there’s also a little bit, you know, a bit of, you know, the obstacle is the way, you know, it’s worth the time, it’s worth the work. Because as we talked about earlier, pre podcast, that it’s the outcomes for clients are a massive one on this, it’s the promise kit. Here, we talked about statistics and claims, whether it’s eight out of 10, nine and a 10, on average, get paid. I think that’s the reinforcement, I’m pretty passionate about that, that promise kit,

Marshall Ross 27:59
it’s huge. That’s the proof in the pudding. And that’s why sometimes it can take a little while I think for if you’re perhaps a new advisor to give you risk advice, or you haven’t, you know, perhaps got a large risk client book, and you haven’t had a lot of client experience, you maybe haven’t seen that practical example those outcomes firsthand. But when you do, it makes a huge difference. It’s pretty overwhelming experience, to see what it can do for people and the opportunities it can give them in the biggest way I would term it is it’s no different to anything else financial in life is that money gives you choice. You know, and it gives you flexibility. And it’s the same when it comes to ill health. You know that money from insurance just gives you choice and flexibility to deal with that however you’d like and make sure you’ve got choice as to how you deal with it. That’s a pretty powerful thing to give to someone beyond just the dollar figure attached to it.

Ryan Watson 28:52
Yeah, and I think, particularly for those younger advisors who are listening to this, and maybe they haven’t gone through a lot of their claims experience with clients, reach out to your trusted BDMS. Obviously, MLC insurance in particular, and get some of those stats, you know, within reason we all like a bit of data, right? And there’s PDS is the life but the power of claims, where they’re coming from, and even stories, I’m sure most insurers have stories, claims experience stories where it’s really helped. I know, here at Tribeca financial and where we’ve we’ve had advisors over the dirty ease at claim time where that real penny drops will do the work and we’ll set up that risk plan as part of you know, a legacy or a contingency strategy. But unfortunately, when people become terminally ill and things, you know, significant health events when the claim is receipted. You just you see your work at work if that makes sense. You do

Marshall Ross 29:45
absolutely do. So those little testimonials in the data is gold, I think yeah, absolutely. I think all the insurers have got, you know, nice customer facing fires that you can use with some of the statistics on them. Oh, no think MLC Well, I’ve just released hours in the last week or so. So if you have a chat to your BDM, they’ve got an updated version now of last year’s claim stat. So your BDMS will be able to get that for you. There’s also the APRA data’s APRA publishes claims data every year, which highlights out and they split it out into a advised cover. So you can get specific data around claims acceptance rates, and you’re right, they’re very, very high. I think in most of the segments, they’re above 90%. With with death, and trauma being the highest above 95%. So really does reinforce to clients that that narrative of all the insurance type pay claims is a waste of money paying premiums, that narrative probably is a little bit misguided. So you can actually provide some data to them that supports that.

Ryan Watson 30:48
Yeah, now make makes perfect sense, Marshall, if we take it back, and, you know, in your, in your mind, see here about high performing advisors that, you know, because I obviously have a big one for mindset and growth mindset, like it’s, we’re thinking about, you know, some advisor come to mind for you in this about, you know, their, their personal habits, you know, what, what sets them apart, whether it’s in business, or them being advisors, you know, because that’s what we want to also look at today in terms of these Well, being paces, you know, advisors looking after their own mental health and having a focus on well being. But we all we’ve talked about habits and structure, you know, what, what are the commonalities amongst the what, what do you say? What, what can people learn when they’re listening to this?

Marshall Ross 31:29
I think some of the things I’ve observed here that that tend to be common, I think, in those those kind of high performers is that big picture thinking, you know, not so much thinking about tomorrow, or this week, it’s around well, what does this actually look like? Or what will this business look like in five years time? What what do I want it to look like in five years time? And then what does that mean for me today? And what does it look like as he as well in the community? Like, what does my business touch outside of just my day to day clients? Know, what can I do to give back because ultimately, that’s something that I think is really huge, or at advisor in that mindset. And that sense of well being is that engagement with the community so often find that, you know, high performing advisors and businesses, there’s various philanthropic endeavors, there’s community engagement, things that they’re doing that actually bring their business to the community, in a way that’s beyond just the day to day with clients. And that’s a great way to, to get that feeling of well being, and get that feeling of achievement and engagement in your business.

Ryan Watson 32:34
Yeah, and I suppose not to belabor the point, Marshall, but conversely, it’s quite easy to in advice to fall into a fixed mindset around compliance and regulation, and the advice world or industry happening? Conversely, they will doing things by choice, whether it’s compliance, the clients, they take on the fees they charge, and I really do not harp or labor the point, but I truly believe it’s a choice between the two.

Marshall Ross 33:01
Yeah, it is. And I think it’s very easy to do that. I mean, I don’t think you’d blame anyone for perhaps getting into that mindset, because it does feel like some days that, you know, every every week was a new press release was something new, a new form of regulation, or something negative or whatever, you know,

Ryan Watson 33:17
and so over such an extended period as well, 810 12 years,

Marshall Ross 33:21
for many years. So it’s easy for that to happen. But you’re right, I think the difference is putting that to the side. And and those who do well say, well, that’s happening regardless, you know, not not all that I can do about it. All I can control is the way I run by business within those parameters. And I think good example for that is, you know, I think I’ve seen the probably if the ad or the AAA had been doing a lot of work around workshops on video, SOA, it’s, you know, that’s a great example of, you know, but still only 3% of SOA is delivered via video. And despite the association promoting compliant ways to give that method of advice. So there’s some examples of ways to think differently and go, Okay, well, even within the current framework for QA out to the side, or things that may happen to the side, what can I do practically today to change this?

Ryan Watson 34:13
And changing the mindset from I think you don’t easily diamond at 3%. Right? So there’s 90 up to 97% that are operating potentially around compliance from a state of fear or control, changing that to abundance and the rules are, what they are, within reason, how do we gamify that to focus on client experience and get clinic? They are what they are, we can’t change within reason? How am I going to make the best of them as opposed to them just happening to us as practitioners?

Marshall Ross 34:40
Yeah, I think so. I think once you do that, it becomes a bit of a frame was said to say, Well, I’ve actually just freed myself up from worrying about this now because I’ve acknowledged I can’t control it. And maybe once you kind of let go of that, you start to move into a space of okay, well, what can I actually do? It becomes a bit exciting to actually think about okay, well, is there Some things I can change or do a little bit differently that might save me some time or give a better experience to my clients, with our processes.

Ryan Watson 35:07
And even something that I’m happy to volunteer what we’ve done at Tribeca financial around this Marshall is we’ve changed the term compliance to PPR professional principles or responsibilities. The reason being is designed to change the minds that are out it, it’s a professional principle, it’s a responsibility that we’re taking on, nothing’s happening to us. It doesn’t change the law, or the compliance regime, right. But it is, it is a choice. So and we will come from a place of learning and like I said, abundance and engagement as opposed to, potentially up to the 97%, where it is fear driven and worried mistakes. because invariably, I know personally, my wife edito are worried about making mistake of probably heightens the chance of as opposed to do we embrace, and things like compliance. Once these are understanding and true learning not to pass an exam, but true learning around it, it’s liberating, it’s actually quite a free structure, when you truly understand.

Marshall Ross 36:02
Yeah, that’s a great example. You know, the C word can certainly elicit some negative connotations for people. So yeah, why not change it to a different terminology and your business? Think about it a little bit differently? It’s not a it’s awesome, I think it’s very clear to say, we’re not saying that all of these things are great things and that you should be excited about them. But it’s just that acknowledgement of, well, I can’t necessarily control what, what are the things I can control to, to practically improve things

Ryan Watson 36:33
spot on. And then that changes, what we call this flashlight from things that we can’t control to things that we can like, growing our tribe like growing the people that we work with, we talked about delegating earlier, the clients we bring on, so who we say yes, to who we say no to how we charge, the value, we provide the value proposition, obviously, that comes off the back of that there are all things that are directly within our power, just depends what we choose to focus on.

Marshall Ross 36:59
Yeah, I actually really liked that you brought up there around who you say yes to and the clients you bring on, because I think that is a big shift for a lot of businesses. And a lot of advisors I speak to as they grow their businesses getting better at that, at the early stages of engagement of working out is this someone who is going to be good to work with moving forward. And then it could be different rules you have like I’ve spoken different advisors who will have rules around like their initial questionnaire or fact find they send out to the client, they have an expectation that the client will have that complete by the meeting date. So now the court has once looked as a friendly reminder to say, hey, we’ll just notice you haven’t done it, let’s push the meeting back a bit, would this be more suitable for you, if they still haven’t done it, then it’s a conversation of, well, maybe this just isn’t quite the thing for you right now. And that’s okay. But you know, there may be just isn’t the right point in your life to get involved in this. And that way, getting quiet. So you know, you’re not going to be chasing them for things, they’re not going to be the ones calling you 16 times a day, outside work hours at chasing you on things. And they’re not going to be creating that stress for you in your business. So I think that’s a really key point is having a think about what that looks like.

Ryan Watson 38:12
That’s exactly right. You know, we talked earlier today around, you know, what binds us in financial planning is around the fact that we all here to help, right? But I think sometimes that can drive us to be misled, where we can chase a client or a prospect, and depending where we are in our professional journey, flipping that on its head, like you talked about and understanding how many first appointments do you actually have in a year or a quarter, how many clients who are willing to take on and creating within reason, a sense of scarcity, and urgency with clients, we are a profession moving away from an industry, it just changes the mindset around that. So if you’re looking to engage 234 clients in a court, whatever you say it’s two, you’ve probably only got two or sorry, four or five discovery points you want to take, start a quarter, you got a few people who are done if I will, or I’ve only got three spots left, I can hold it open for you till Friday, or whatever it is to book that in changing just changing this language and changing the mindset around it that scared see it scarcity and urgency can raise the urgency or the importance in a client’s eyes. They’ve all got a priority list of things in their life. We just want to get top a closer to the top. So we can take that stress at that security and freedom of choice to them as well. So it’s really interesting. Put your back.

Marshall Ross 39:26
Yeah, and I think by making that clear to people early, you get them to put value on your time. You know, it can be the thing that we’ve he illustrate that early in say for example, do say we’re gonna notice you haven’t completed the initial fact Vaughn was just pushed the meeting back. Is it something that’s still important to you that often be apologetic? It’s I will not I’m sorry, I meant to do it and really sorry. I’ll make sure I do it and jump on and do that for you. I do want to make sure I do this. And then when you do ask for additional information and whatnot down the track, they’re aware that time is valuable. And then it’s important to engage the year setting those expectations is, is really important to having that sense of well being and enjoyment in your business.

Ryan Watson 40:09
Yeah, because otherwise, sometimes it could become a relationship with the advisor or the businesses chasing the clients as opposed to something like a 15 minute phone call, if they look like an ideal client booking in the discovery, but normalizing with him that all people get that the completed Client Profile back within 48 hours, most people want to be like most people, it’s just the conscious language around that, that can really create effectiveness in a business, not saying technology and couple of all that’s but some of the things that just change the behavior at an advisor or practice level that can really help.

Marshall Ross 40:40
Yep, yeah, and you’re right, that language is important. You know, it can be things like, oh, you know, we find that our most successful clients do this or their clients, they get really good outcomes. Yeah, they get this, you know, they generally have this completed about 48 hours. And that enables them to get into their advice quicker and get on the path quicker. So those little you’re right, people want to keep up with the Joneses. And if you kind of set those little, little sneaky expectations as you go, you can go a long way to getting you know, more productive relationships.

Ryan Watson 41:08
Absolutely. That’s about all I had to cover today. Marshall, is there anything else that you want to highlight in this conversation we’d like to discuss?

Marshall Ross 41:17
And I think Thanks, Ron, great, great to be on the podcast. Thanks for having us on and really enjoyed the discussion that so yeah, if anyone off the back of today wants to perhaps explore some of those resources I mentioned they can jump on the the vivo wellbeing website and have a look at it or you have a chat to their, their local BDM around what may be able to help them in their well being space.

Ryan Watson 41:40
Fantastic. Thanks again, Marshall.