#55 Jean Archary – Transcript

Louis van der Merwe
Welcome to another episode of Financial Planners, South Africa. Today I have with me in the studio, Jean Archary. Jean is the founder and founder financial wellness coach, entrepreneur, speaker and author of money messages. She is a non practicing certified financial planner. And Jean, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jean Archary
Thank you for having me, Louis. I’m excited to be here.

Louis van der Merwe
Before we started our conversation, you shared with me how you ended up in financial planning. And if you’re comfortable, I’d love for you to share that story with our audience.

Jean Archary
Absolutely. And you know, I’ve heard so many, so many different people that nobody ever, you know, back in our day, in any event, nobody really decided to pursue financial planning as a career. And when I left school, I actually wanted to become a psychologist. And I didn’t have money to study full time. So I worked full time and I studied pattern. And one of the first few jobs I had was in financial services. And somewhere along the way, I discovered that, you know, psychology and financial planning are very much related in the sense that, you know, your mindset, the way you behave around money has got a lot to do with whether you achieved financial wellness and financial success. And so it was only much later on in my career that I actually realized how the two are linked. So it wasn’t a complete waste of studying.

Louis van der Merwe
That’s so wonderful, that kind of first path around, you know, studying the human side. And so we’ve seen that in the last couple of years, a little bit of a shift into that space. Why do you think people find it so strange that psychology and finance were like always disconnected

Jean Archary
psychology I think looks a lot at the at the past at your behavior, more focused around emotional well being and, you know, problems that may have stemmed from your childhood. But I think that you know, now knowing what we know, we know that the past has a lot to do with how we behave in the future, obviously, you know, your childhood experiences, your earliest memories, the role that your parents played, you siblings and other role models, all have an impact in terms of how you will behave going forward. I mean, my story is a typical one of you know, when I was born into a wealthy home, and by the time I was eight, you know, my, my, my, my dad ended up abandoning us. And in the process, my mom was supposed to raise four kids on our own. And at the time, she was a stay at home mom. So, you know, she didn’t have the financial support or resources going forward. And that was one of the things that actually motivated me, later on in life. But, you know, growing up in that experience, I questioned a lot about a lot of things, my self worth, you know, you had a lot of doubts, low self esteem. Obviously, you know, having all your childhood dream snatched away from you having to transition into an environment where we there was a lot of scarcity of money. And on top of it, not having a father to help guide you and navigate you through this, because I think in the process, we also lost my mom, sort of because she had to now work two jobs at a time to be able to take care of us. And so one of the reasons why I actually wanted to study psychology and in particular, I was looking forward to practicing child psychology was because of my own emotional trauma. And I think, again, it was never a waste because I got to understand my own emotions a lot better in that truck. says,

Louis van der Merwe
Jean, itsounds like you from a young age, you knew, hey, this is something I need to unpack and I need to incorporate in my life. Yet, as financial planners, it often feels like we need to leave our personal stories at home, it sounds like you’ve embraced that, with the work that you do have you managed to integrate the two, you know,

Jean Archary
and this is a it’s a leading story, or I share the story quite openly on social media platforms with my clients, you know, when I’m posting a webinar, because I think when you are more authentic, and you’re able to raise, you’re able to resonate with your audience and with your clients, people look at us, and they think, you know, we were obviously a lot more financially astute than what that what they might be, but they want to know that they want to be inspired, they want to know that there’s hope. And I think when you share your money story with them, they get to realize and see you as a human, they get to realize and see that, you know, you’ve also been there and you know, if you can come out of that, and you obviously, and I think we are in the in the best position to be able to speak to our clients about this into that and to help uplift them through that process. You know, I don’t know, I mean, it’s, it’s, if I was born with, if I had had that silver spoon not taken out of my mouth, my journey might not would have looked very different. And I might not have gotten to a point where I wanted to empower others around money matters, because I don’t want to see people go through what we went through. And Louis, I mean, I’ve worked in this industry for over 20 years, I know how many mistakes people make, because of a lack of financial education. And a lot of those mistakes could be prevented if they were or they had access to the education. So I’m on a mission to try and shift the way people think, feel and behave with money, and give them the opportunity to actually improve their financial outcomes, not only for themselves, but also for the loved ones,

Louis van der Merwe
you make it sound so easy, but it takes vulnerability, it takes courage to open up about these things, it’s easy to say that once you’ve actually done it, who in your life has supported you through this journey to make it a little bit easier.

Jean Archary
You know, it was a lot of mistakes along the way, and almost half a decade, half a century old. So, you know, there’s been a lot of mistakes, a lot of lessons, I’ve had to learn a lot of stuff, development and growth that I’ve needed to focus on, on my journey. And you know, I’ve been fortunate that having a role model, like my mom, when she was such an inspiration, I mean, she raised four kids on her own. And whilst we were never short of basics, we always had always found a way to, you know, spoil us and other days and, you know, to be there fast and support us and up till now she’s still doing that. So, you know, to watch her go from a place of, you know, and she was at a young age, I mean, she must have been in our early 30s, when she was also abandoned in this process. And, you know, her strength and courage has just motivated me completely. And there’s a lot of women out there that have been, you know, great role models for the children for other women. And, and you know, the other thing is, when you see other women and other people speaking their truth, it actually gives you permission to speak your own,

Louis van der Merwe
but so wonderful, and you phrase it so nicely. I’m I’m curious, what advice would you give to your mom, almost preparing her for for what would come that 30 year old that her husband might not be there anymore? Knowing what you know, now how would you help prepare for that? And ask

Jean Archary
that question. You know, my entire, many messages philosophy is built on Maya Angelou quote, which is when you know better you do better. And I think that is so important that whatever lessons that we’ve learned along our path to our journeys, those messages and stories need to be shared in order for to enable other people to not make those same mistakes. And you know, if I had to go back and tell my mom or give advice, obviously, I think the first thing I would have done is said to her, make sure that you’re you are financially protected, so that if anything were to happen, that you have options, she never left her marriage, she she was left. And the sad thing is that it had to come to that for her to be okay, but she never made the decision on our own. And I can imagine what a difficult situation it must have been. Because you’ve got four children under the age of 10. You’ve got no career, no income, how do you walk away from a relationship and abusive relationship on top of it without having options? And so I’m I’m so grateful that that decision was made for her because I don’t know what would have happened. If it wasn’t. Yeah, so I think convenient would have been to Emma message every woman out there is to make sure that they are protected financially, not only for themselves, but for their children as well.

Louis van der Merwe
I had a conversation yesterday with a lady by the name of Felicity guest, and she focuses on financial and economic abuse. And it really comes down to that power imbalance, someone using money to control your outcome. And what she said is that it often is coupled with maybe elderly abuse or physical abuse, and just having more options creates that space where you don’t have to tolerate the abuse.

Jean Archary
Absolutely, I think, you know, money buys us time and buys us freedom, and advisors flexibility to make those decisions. And even if you are a stay at home, mom, they are doesn’t, it does not mean that you’re not contributing towards the household, you’re not contributing towards the financial upkeep of the household. And I always say this to my male clients mean, if you owe even though a female clients will say, Oh, well, I don’t work. So I don’t need to take up Africa as an example. And I always say to them, you know, even if you’re not working in earning an income, you still contributing towards the financial upkeep of the household, to remove you your role out of that situation. And then what happens if your husband is left to look after the children is now going to need to hire a nanny or an au pair to transport service for the children to take them to school, pick them up and take care of them. So you are contributing financially to the upkeep of the household? And when they see it from that perspective, then, you know, obviously, then they feel that they are contributing some sort of value to the house.

Louis van der Merwe
How do we change that cycle of value equal to the amount of money that you bring to the relationship or to the family?

Jean Archary
That’s, uh, yeah, I mean, I think that is a subjective, subjective calculation. And I think every family needs to basically probably sit down and you know, decide what would happen in different scenarios. So if the if the moment go back to work, or is the planning on leaving work, or, you know, when she falls pregnant, they need to, I guess, probably review what their financial costs are, and you know, what type of lifestyle they want to love. And I think that is an important part of that conversation. Because, you know, I think people generally spend more than what they earn people aspire for, have different desires in terms of what they want to achieve from a lifestyle perspective. And obviously, there’s different costs that are attached to that. So it just boils down to what works best for you and your family.

Louis van der Merwe
Jean, can we talk a little bit about the financial wellness coaching part of your business? What would make someone be prompted to reach out to a financial wellness coach?

Jean Archary
So, Louis, and I think one of the reasons why I embarked on this journey is because there are two types of people in our world, there are people that need advice and will seek advice. And there are people that need advice, but don’t seek it. And I think the market that I’m purely focused on currently is that market that doesn’t feel or need advice, but it doesn’t is not able to ask for it or to be able to pay for it. And I think, you know, obviously from a financial planner, a financial advisor perspective, and obviously, I mean, the is in the change changes happening in the industry at the moment whereby people and you know, are being remunerated not only for the products that they sell, but because financial planners and advisors mostly remunerated by selling products, there is an untapped market that cannot afford that advice. And so that is the market that I want to focus on and empower because they’re the ones that are not accessing basic financial education, and even people that do have, you know, that are more educated or earning a higher income. I even see amongst that bracket, or that type of demographic, is that there’s still a lack of wanting to seek financial education or financial advice from an advisor or planner. And so many messages, my financial education and wellness company I don’t sell or market or advice on any products or any financial products. My role is to purely give education and to be able to help people get out of these situations, improve their financial outcomes, setting goals budget better. So there’s a whole other things that we look at in terms of helping them to overcome those challenges.

Louis van der Merwe
I love the fact that you have managed to create a business and career through something that maybe doesn’t require a financial services provider license, knowing that most of the people listening to this would think, you know, you need to follow this process. And if you want to give advice and has to entail a product, how do you bridge that gap? When someone says, Well, actually, maybe I do need advisors to up then refer them out to an advisor that can assist with the product.

Jean Archary
Yeah, and, you know, I’ve been approached by quite a few companies to become an affiliate of our provider. And I’m very reluctant to go down that route. Because I feel I don’t want to, I don’t want to dissolve My my, my my proposition, I don’t want to dilute my proposition. And so I do say this to my clients, if you are looking for financial advice, you can contact your bank, you can contact a financial advisor yourself, or if you have to, you really need to, then I am able to refer you to some strategic partners that that I do work with.

Louis van der Merwe
So this is very much a symbiotic relationship where it almost sounds like financial advisors should be sending their clients to this process first, and then saying, Well, come to me when you need the product implementation, but go and fix some of those kind of root causes, the the money stories and the many things, many messages, I guess that are that are derailing your financial plans. Absolutely. And I think,

Jean Archary
you know, I mean, I studied my poster in financial planning. So, you know, I did it quite a few years ago, probably two decades ago. But when I did it, I mean, we didn’t really focus on the behavioral elements, and the emotional relationship with money. And so a lot of these people are in a situation where they’re spending more than what they earn, they don’t have resources to invest. And so what they do need is to free up those, free up their debt, you know, reduce the expenses, manage the income accordingly, and then start setting those goals. So definitely, I mean, there is there is a, there is a gap in the market in terms of, you know, educating those clients and getting them to a point where they are now financially stable, that they do have surplus cash, that they are able to invest, and then they can go back to the advisor,

Louis van der Merwe
how does this engagement typically look like? Is it a one session? Is it multiple sessions, tell us a little bit more about what someone can expect that would go through this journey with you.

Jean Archary
So again, it depends on the client’s budget, it depends on the needs, it depends on what their goals are, and the challenges that they are looking to overcome. And the initial conversation is around, you know, what they what the immediate challenges are. And then we put a plan together in place for them to actually overcome those challenges. So the relationship can last for it could be oneself, it could be it’s generally never once off. But I mean, it could be two or three sessions, it could be ongoing, it could be, you know, take years. I mean, financial wellness, we know is not a one off event, it requires ongoing and constant engagement and practice and efforts. And so I always say to my clients that, you know, depending on how quickly they want to see those results, I mean, the coaching obviously gets the most effective changes, and you see the the shuts off, you know, in a relatively short space of time, I also created an online component where people can go and complete courses online by themselves. And, again, you know, I wanted to make sure that I deliver various solutions and formats for people, irrespective of the earnings and the needs and the challenges so they can choose which which option is going to work for them best.

Louis van der Merwe
What would good financial wellness look like if we were looking at a typical client? What would you strive towards to say, well, you have now attained a fair or a good financial well being and financial

Jean Archary
wellness, to me is it’s a level of state that we reach when we are in total control of our financial situations. And I think again, that is something that is very subjective, which is what I’ve also included in my program. And you know, when we look at you as an example, you’re married, you got a kid, I’m divorced with kid. everybody’s situation is different. Everyone’s Money Story is different. And so we need to take that into consideration. And so when I looked at creating this online program, and I think it’s morphed a few times, but when I looked at creating this program, I tried to understand how could I help individuals based on their personal circumstances? And so I’ve created a whole lot of tools and workbooks and other resources that they can use to identify what their personal situation looks like. And then to basically almost cherry pick solutions that would be appropriate and relevant according to their personal circumstances. And I think that in that sense, we can then start to look at what does financial wellness mean for that person and create a solution that basically resonates with them that appeals to them, and that they are able to implement in the solution. I always give this as an example, because I’ve been struggling on my weight loss journey. And I always say that, you know, if I wanted to lose weight, as an example, I and somebody gives me an eating plan, I can go in, or I find one off the internet, I can go and follow that eating plan, but the chances of me sticking to it is going to be very slim. And the reason for that is because I haven’t really sat down and discussed with an expert to say, Okay, what, what do you like to eat? Or what can’t you eat? Or, you know, what, what, what is your physical issues that might be impacting your weight loss. And until I’ve actually understood what that is, only then can I customize a solution that is relevant for me, so that someone that doesn’t eat beef, and I put an eating plan off, that includes people, that plan is not going to work for me, because it hasn’t taken into account my personal circumstances. And so you know, the most effective ways to obviously, sit down with someone understand that fully, if you don’t have access to somebody who will you can sit down with, then try and find the resources that were able with that you will be you will be able to create that healthy eating plan. And financial wellness is exactly the same. I mean, obviously, coaching, as I said, has the biggest chips, but if people can’t afford coaching, they should be other options available to them.

Louis van der Merwe
I thought this was just another journey to engage with a financial professional, you know, and probably even a safer journey. One way someone doesn’t expect to receive a financial product. Yeah, I

Jean Archary
think, you know, we’ve worked in this industry for so long, we know how it has become just riddled with distressed. And I don’t think you know, it’s sad, because I mean, I think there’s some great financial advisors and financial planners out there that genuinely care about their clients and are able to give that level of education and advice to them. But yeah, I think definitely, I mean, there’s it removes that element of wanting to sell something to you, because I think, you know, and that’s why I never pants products. And anyway, even I won’t even go out and say I can recommend people to you unless it is asked of me.

Louis van der Merwe
And can you share a little bit of your journey, in terms of creating this business moving from your previous career into this because that can be very scary, setting up a new business, essentially, in a field way, you creating your own your own products, and something that’s maybe not that common out there. So I had

Jean Archary
my own financial education business back in 2010. And I was going through a divorce around 2012. So I realized I needed stable income. And I went back into corporate. And I’m glad I actually did that, because I learned so much on their journey of that 10 years that I worked good, I really got to understand a lot about behavioral economics, and behavioral finance. And, but it’s always been a passion. It’s always been something that’s been burning inside me. And it’s something I couldn’t let go. And in that 10 years, I actually authored two stories that teaches kids about money in my attempts to educate my own daughter, and I think that was an opportunity for me to be able to still live my passion whilst earning an income. And about to a year before COVID hit, I came up with idea of creating an online financial education program. And I started focusing on building that in my spare time, every single weekend went into building the content, because I said to myself, if I want to make this work, if I’m going to make this work, then I need to be able to hit the road running as soon as I as I exit corporates. Because I need to be financially well, if I’m going to talk about financial wellness. And so the scariest thing for me was as a single mom, walking away from a secure income. And so I both the content and I was meant to have left in March 2020. In March 2020 and COVID happened and people started losing their jobs, their businesses, people were being retrenched. You know, and I just thought to myself, How do I now walk away from the secure income? And, you know, I started to in fact, actually two things that actually happened in that in that journey. One I needed to because I was going to pitch my proposition to corporates for the employees. And when COVID happened, I thought okay, well if companies are not going to want to spend on financial wellness, now they might want to spin in the CSI and they In whatever funds they have in the employee wellness programs on focusing on emotional health and COVID, getting people to COVID. And so that’s when I started to adapt my business model to speak to individuals as well. So my program is not only available to employees, it’s available to individuals as well if they want to, you know, if they want to subscribe to the platform. And I also started to include content for everybody in the household. So not just the working adults, or the children, the teenage children, the young adults, even their domestic staff, there’s content available for everybody. So that was the one thing that happened out of that one year delay. But the other thing that happened was my personal journey was my fear kicked in. Now remember, I went from abundance to scarcity. And so for me, my emotional connection and relationship with money has been quite a challenging when because I’ve always been scared, I’ve always questioned my ability, my self doubt my self worth. And so my mindset needed a lot of fixing. And in that one year, I had to work a lot on myself. So I did a lot of online causes a lot of reading a lot of work on my own mental mind frame. And that was an essential part of this journey, because a lot of my content now includes not only the IQ side of managing money, but also unpacking and understanding our emotional relationship with money, we just got to do a lot with our thoughts, beliefs, and behavior around money.

Louis van der Merwe
That’s such a powerful story. And it’s something that comes up so often, that we need to do the work first, you know, we need to put in the hours to understand not just our own financial health, but also our emotional health relating to money. How much of this should we be discussing with a therapist? You know, it feels like there should be some kind of super visionary or supervisory role for financial planners just so that we can start having these discussions, or is it suitable to have them with a coach,

Jean Archary
I said, that’s a tough one. And again, against that, again, I think, you know, there’s there’s different therapists, there’s different coaches, and they all play different roles. And, you know, obviously, financial wellness, I focus specifically on your financial goals. Obviously, that is linked to life goals, as well. So you know, if you start your own business, that’s a life goal, that you have these financial implications to it. Any goal that you want, or that you have in life has a financial implication to it, even if you want to, you know, leave work and do charity work, you still need to be able to find your expenses. So there’s, there’s always that financial implication. And I think a financial wellness coach will focus specifically on how you get from where you are, to where you want to be. So I think there’s a place for all types of coaches, all types of therapists, it just depends on what the client or the coachee is looking for. What are the immediate goals, you know, and trying to find the right resources that can help them to shut out some of them from where they are to where they want to be,

Louis van der Merwe
would then be right to say that the coaching would be more forward looking, it’s like, okay, this is what we want to achieve with maybe therapies looking backwards and unpacking what happened and kind of reframing that.

Jean Archary
So I do look a little bit at the past as well. Because again, of my own personal journey, I find and I know that psychology is, it looks at the past and coaching looks at the future. But I think where the differentiator comes in terms of the work that I do, especially when it’s unpacking your emotional relationship with money, is to identify what those earliest childhood memories of money is. If you are constantly hearing from your parents, that money doesn’t grow on trees, that does impact your behavior going forward in the future. And so we do need to work somewhat on overcoming those challenges. And it goes back to actually understanding what those earliest childhood memories of money is what what beliefs were in imprinted in your brain, because that plays a huge role in terms of how you view the future.

Louis van der Merwe
Can we stick with that a little bit? So you mentioned the these kind of I think we call them manuscripts what adults would say money doesn’t grow on trees. So now let’s assume that was my parents, and I’m one of your co cheese. How would you help me unpack and change that thinking? Or is it just the awareness alone? That’s sufficient?

Jean Archary
I think awareness is the first step. And truly, and it’s different techniques we can use to actually figure out how circuits or Venus exercises that I’ve come across that helped people to unpack and identify what those negative beliefs are. And once we’ve done that, we then start looking at how do we overcome them and again, some of the techniques that we uses around reframing and reframing certain concepts, certain terminology words that are used. Obviously, it requires a lot of effort and practice using affirmations to reprogram the brain. So there’s a whole lot of techniques that do actually work. But you know, and again, people ask me about how long do I need to be doing this for? And I always say to them, Well, look, when you are kid, you constantly heard that you’ve been living with these thoughts and beliefs for 30 years, it’s not going to just happen overnight. But you know, with this, there’s research that has been done that, that says that, you know, takes 21 days to change a habit. In some instances, it might take longer, I think, until you start believing it, and seeing the changes for yourself, that’s when you know that it’s actually worked and you’ve overcome it. That’s a difficult

Louis van der Merwe
thing to change, not just the habits, but your beliefs, you know, what might be true to you, especially if you’ve, you’ve heard it all your life. I’m really curious, what are the what are the clients saying that this is done? Like, wait, this has worked? Well? Like? What’s the type of feedback that you’re getting? How, how have you changed their lives? Or how have you helped them?

Jean Archary
Do it? And before we get to that, can I just add, you know, when we are born, and you’ve got a newborn, so you should know this, as well. But when we are born, we are only born with two fears. And those two fears, as the sound of loud noises and the fear of falling, or other fears have been learned. And so all those fears can be unlearned. But again, it requires effort in practice. Yeah, so I mean, I’ve only been doing this for a while I left my corporate job in April last year, it’s been an amazing journey. And my business is still very young, so only been in it for just over a year, I partnered with the University, you know, educating the employees every month. And so I’ve had some coaching clients from them, as well as a few other corporates that I’ve been working with. And the shifts have been unbelievable. I mean, honestly, and it’s, as I said, it’s a journey. It’s a process. I’ll give you an example. I coached actually my own domestic work worker through the program. And before I took her on this journey, she wasn’t saving any, she wasn’t saving for all the agent, she wasn’t saving for emergencies. And when I created the program, I tested it on her net to get through it. And you know, her her response to me when I asked her if she’s saving is that No, she’s not saving her doors will take care about. And when I when we have completed the program, at the end of that conversation, and she was very fortunate to be able to do this. But I said to her that generally people put away at least 15% of their salaries towards the old age. And she said, Okay, I’ll say 20%. So I was blown away when she said of 20%. But you know, the impact for me is, the reward that I got out of that is I’ve not only changed her life, but I’ve changed her daughter’s life as well. And I think, you know, people might not see it right now. But in 10 years, and 15 and 20 years from now, they will actually see the value of the whole coaching experience.

Louis van der Merwe
But such a wonderful story and the fruits that you’ll see from that. How do you navigate the cultural and language barriers when working maybe with employees from corporate? Because you will, it’ll span all walks of life?

Jean Archary
Yeah. So you know, that’s always a challenge. And I’m hoping at some point to start translating a lot of my content content into other official languages. But for now, unfortunately, we, you know, we, we are limited to English, I am also looking at developing additional tools that will make it easier for people to engage with the platform. But for now, everything is in English I’m trying to keep so there’s so what if people go through the program, the online program, this videos explaining what they need to do, each section is workbooks, they can download, you know, there’s a whole lot of resources that they can use in there. But I’ve tried to keep it as simple as possible to make sure that you know, there’s different content available for different people with domestic workers is an example. There’s a course in my program that speaks to specifically to domestic workers. And I always say to employers, you know, use this platform, I mean, it doesn’t mean you must just pay for the cause and get them to do it. It’s an hour, two hours of your time. All you have to do is sit with them and guide them through the process and help them through their journey. And then it helps make it a lot easier for them.

Louis van der Merwe
This is wonderful. I mean, how do we get this into into schools where we can start including learners at a young age to kind of become more financially aware,

Jean Archary
that has been a constant battle to get into the Department of Education. I’ve also authored these two books that teaches kids about money and so I’ve been trying to work with nonprofits are trying to get funding for getting books into schools, especially for underprivileged kids, because I think financial education should be a basic right for everyone, irrespective of whether you have access to financial resources or not. So that is a mission that I’m also trying to pursue. I’ve also created a teen program that teaches teenagers about money. And again, also at the moment, I’m having conversations with a few schools to try and see if we can get the program into schools. But I mean, the program is available to parents as well. The month of the online courses are not expensive at all, I’ve tried to make it as affordable as I possibly could. People can subscribe per household for 99 Rand per month, they can stop the program at any time, they’re not tied in for any specific period of time. So they feel that they’re not getting any value out of it, they can exit, but they have access to the entire platform for them and their families. And I think that’s pretty affordable. For a lot of households.

Louis van der Merwe
This is wonderful, and you’re really making a difference in those people’s lives. The the Netflix of financial education

Jean Archary
isn’t exactly the concept I was going for when I pitched it at 99. Because of Netflix.

Louis van der Merwe
And this is probably gonna make a much bigger impact in your life than watching another episode of Stranger Things. But I want to thank you so much for the work that you’re doing. If people want to reach out and volunteer and help kind of spread this message, what’s the what’s the best way to get ahold of you?

Jean Archary
I’m always looking for Ambassador so there’s financial advisors and financial planners out there that you know want to take this proposition out to the to their clients, they’re more than welcome to contact me my email is info at money messages.co dot zero a. My website is many money messages, dot 0.0. I’m available on LinkedIn purposes page on LinkedIn. I’ve got a business page on Facebook. I’ve even started a group for parents who want to raise money smart kids on Facebook. So yeah, they can reach out to me on any of those platforms.

Louis van der Merwe
I want to add one last thing that people should get the tickets for humans under management, because we’ll be sharing the stage at the captain version of humans under management. And I think we’re in for a treat if we just listened to today’s conversation. Thank you so much for being

Jean Archary
so excited about about about that. And I look forward to meeting you in person UI and getting to engage more with financial planners in the community.

Louis van der Merwe
Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you