#93 Kevin Feather – Transcript

Louis van der Merwe
Welcome to another episode of Ensombl Advice South Africa. Today I have with with me physically in the office given further given has been an inspiration for me as a financial planner, guiding the change in financial planners and specifically his role around bringing the coaching element to financial planners, I think that has been really pivotal. Thank you, Kevin, for being here today.

Kevin Feather
Thank you very much for for having me today.

Louis van der Merwe
Given you mentioned to me, before we started that, you know, you’ve you’ve spanned almost four decades in financial services. And I look forward to unpacking a little bit of what those four decades look like, but also what the next four might look like.

Kevin Feather
Don’t know about the next stuff, 14, or it’s a four decades. But let me let me reflect on let’s say, the past 38 years in this industry, which really started what was that in 1985? in Bloemfontein, I might add, because I reached out from from the comfort zone, and I was an investment advisor at trust building such a society which part of the, the Trust Bank Group? Yes, and I think that was my foray into, you know, dealing with, with clients selling product to them, which was, let’s say fixed term deposits, tax free deposits. Such was interesting, I think, in that, in that time already, you know, to start connecting, and developing relationships with, with clients. Yeah, and that was, let’s say, a nearly two year journey was, was then approached by, by Sanlam, in blueprint down and, and really, you know, join Sanlam as a broker consultant than it was then so called broker consultant. But we’ll get to that terminology a little bit later, how exotic that dogs do the do the evolution of the financial planning industry and the terminology used? Yes, and I think that’s, that’s where I really got into working with financial planners, seeing how they work, see how they think. And I might just add, looking at the evolution, again, of financial planning, that’s when it was still a product, sales driven industry. Yeah, and, right, I was with some, as a broker consultant for about 11 years, in 1989, I moved down to Cape Town, also as a broker consultant, and continue that journey, you know, of working with, with financial, financial planners, and, you know, looking at the challenges that they have with, with dealing with, with clients. And then when was it about 1997, I joined some unit trusts to start a new new division there, targeting lisps. And, you know, being the, let’s say, the liaison between some unit trusts and analysts platforms, and then also focusing on multi managers who in that point in time, we’re putting wrap funds together. So it was, I think, an interesting period there too, you know, then working with a, you know, relationships and a different kind of, let’s say, client, at that point in time. Yes. And then what was it in 2005, you know, really got this opportunity to join Alan Gray, you know, to really develop independent financial advisors. And at that point in time, my mandate was really to assist independent financial advisors to retain their independence. And really also to assist them to build long term sustainable businesses. Because that I think, was key as you know, it’s not only about selling, it’s about as an independent financial adviser, running a business and really working on your business and not only in your business. And that’s really where I started, you know, not only myself, but you know, collaborating with with team members to really look at the independent financial advice space, and really analyzing and researching, you know, what finance independent financial advisors needed within their practice, because really felt at that point in time, it’s about managing your business, you know, according to best practice, or global best practice benchmarking standards. Yeah, and we took a number of financial advisors, they have about close to 40 financial advisors with about let’s call it 30 FSPs. Through a process where we You know, we got external service providers in to do a global best practice benchmarking audit. And it was very interesting to see, you know, what challenges the independent financial advisors, and at that point in time, and, you know, we really try to assist them, you know, to navigate through these challenges with the help of these external service providers to really implement, you know, some of the suggestions that were put forward in the in the audit reports. And we did, in fact, two audits, say, a practice audit, as well as a compliance audit. And you may remember that, that’s when phase the phase act really started. And that was a challenging time for many independent financial advisors. And really, we got these specialists in, you know, to really focus on going through certain files, and, you know, ensuring you know, that they’re from a faith perspective, that they were following the process. So I think that was very insightful, not only for myself, or for Alan Gray, but very insightful for, you know, the independent financial advisors or their frisbees that went through this, this process. And from there, we really saw I saw the value in, you know, focusing on your practice. And we then developed the Alan Gray, let’s say practice management programs, where we made use of external service providers, and we took so many advisors through through the practice management programs again, you know, instilling in them that, really you need to do work on your business, and not only in, in your business, and, you know, give them a number of guidelines by these external service providers, you know, what to focus on, you know, within within your business, right from the start from you’re setting up this business, and looking at the vision, right through to your, your value proposition as, as a financial advisor and as an as an MSP to clients. And so, evolves, you know, we, we ran these practice management programs, what was it for about four years, and then it was really about doing some thorough and in depth research in terms of global developments in the financial planning space. And as we went on, yeah, we, I clearly identified, you know, financial life planning was coming to the fore there and went on a research process, you know, to really look at the work done by a number of thought leaders in the industry and the Mitch Anthony’s, the George kinders, you know, of the world really looked at, you know, their work. And they insights looked at their insights that they brought due to the industry. Yeah, which was, you know, very, very insightful to ask, but I think at that point in time, fairly new in the industry, and I think it was about refinery, just want to get my numbers, right, yeah, probably about five years ago, or just 2018. Actually, we introduced the Alan Gray, and we have a coaching program and took a number of financial advisors through through this process, to really adopt a coaching way of being with their clients and really, really cultivating a you know, deeper connection, you know, with, with clients and that deeper human or emotional connection with, with clients. Again, it was, I think, a fascinating journey to see that some, let’s say, thought leaders, or let’s say financial planners, that were thought leaders, being ahead of the curve and really introducing, you know, financial life planning into, into their approach to clients, and really adopting a coaching way of being with with clients. Yeah, and through that program, we clearly could see how certain independent financial advisors then changed from a really a fixed mindset to a growth mindset and and the development that really took place and some of them really shared some, some personal stories of of our they changed their their thinking and change their approach. And some of them shared. You know how employees within the FSB see them differently. You know, due to this, you know, adopting a coaching way of being not only with your clients, but with staff with family members. So that that was that was very insightful and really showed us, or showed me that we were having a great impact, you know, in terms of changing lives and being part of this thought leadership in the in the industry.

And, you know, being ahead of the curve, you know, so to speak. And, you know, we had two iterations of the behavioral coaching program. And, clearly, we saw the same pattern with, with the secondary level coaching programmers. And I think what did was fascinating, too, is, and I think this is a human element is certain certain people take longer to really get it. And nothing wrong with that. But as long as you you get it, and you really, you know, evolve. And he, you know, stay ahead of the curve in terms of developments in in this industry. So, yes, we completed two iterations of that, and when we took it a step further and did some additional research, and really found that one of the, let’s say, areas of feedback that we got was, you know, yeah, we focused on self development, the development of the financial plan, and you’re adopting a coaching way of being with your client. But how do how do we integrate this, you know, these learnings into the whole client engagement process, so that it’s a seamless process from a client engagement perspective, really took us to the next level, you know, where we did some additional research? Yeah, and said, well, let’s bring the that component into it, is really cultivating systematizing and implementing the human connection, you know, within your financial planning business, and we currently busy with that, that process. And, you know, I think over the years, what we’ve we’ve adopted in the evolution of our programs is the principle of, of action, reflection, learning is, yeah, you have an action, you really reflect on it. And then you learn from it, and you really adjust. And I think that’s a very important principle. And I think it goes back to a comment I made is, I try and remind myself that there, there are no failures, it’s, they are learnings. And I think that gets back to the the action reflection learning approach. And if you can have that mindset, you know, in terms of this continuous learning process, I try and remind myself on a daily basis, you know, at this point in my career is, what new thing can I learn today, and that’s been my, that’s been my philosophy. And, you know, hopefully, we can continue, you know, I can continue making a difference in the lives of financial planners and taking them to this to this next level. Because clearly, we know that AI is going to have a huge impact. You know, AI can can select products do the technical stuff for you. But AI can’t connect with the emotions of the client. So that’s where I see the opportunity in the industry going forward is for financial planners, to really could connect at an emotional level with, with clients and really take that journey with him.

Louis van der Merwe
Given you’ve seen many, many financial planning relationships, and I’m wondering, you know, maybe even from when you joined Alan gray in 2005, how is it seeing these advisors that you’ve been working with for the last, you know, 1520, maybe 30? Relationships? How is it seeing how the impact that you’re making in their lives and they’re changing their businesses? What does that bring to you?

Kevin Feather
Well, I think it’s a good it’s a great feeling to see that, you know, financial planners or independent financial advisors are really adopting, you know, the principles. And to be totally honest, it’s not just about me, it’s, it’s about collaborating with a number of other people in this process. And, you know, I think that’s what I’ve learned over the years is it’s not only about yourself, is you you need to network, you need to, you know, identify the thought leaders, the specialists in particular areas, you know, and put this together and develop those relationships with independent financial advisors and see them then develop thick that is, that’s a great feeling, too. But that’s

Louis van der Merwe
definitely a gift, right? Being able to identify something and say, Hey, I think I can package this into a way that financial planners can take action can reflect and can learn, because that’s one thing we often see, we have all this information, right? Someone once said that if information was the only thing it took, we’d all be millionaires with six packs. So we know it’s not just information, right, then why is it so difficult for us to take action? In our businesses? When we learn about oh, we need to involve this? Like, what’s what’s your take on? on that?

Kevin Feather
Yeah, I think it might get back to what I mentioned earlier on, is maybe as as humans, you know, we we adopt a fixed mindset and really struggle to develop these new neural pathways. And it’s really about developing habits. So I think a great read is James clears atomic habits, you know, which really focuses on, you know, just making these small improvements. And we said that, you know, habits are the compound interest of self development. And that’s, that’s really stuck with me, and just making what he says these 1% changes on a regular basis, which then, I think gets you to this compounding effect. And I think he refers to habit stacking as well. So great read. I’ve read the book as well. And I think another great read is a Growing Greatness by the MRA, which which I’ve read as well, it’s, again, a recommended reading book,

Louis van der Merwe
I want to ask you, Kevin, is there any, any habits that you’ve incorporated in your life to remain positive and remain motivated? Because you always bring so much energy to conversations, it seems like there’s given given always shows up to conversations like, what is the secret sauce behind those habits in your life?

Kevin Feather
Well, yeah, generally, I’ve, I’ve always been a positive person, you know, it’s, it’s clearly about trying to make a difference in you know, bring bringing something to the conversation, hopefully, something creative, something different to the conversation. And I think the one of the principles that came through in the way our coaching program is, is really through your questioning, and you know, asking the right questions, you know, getting the other person to think about this particular scenario. But then, again, it’s I think it’s so important to ask the right question, to get the right answer. And that takes takes some some skill. So I think it’s over over the years, you know, being on this journey, and really listening. I think that’s a that’s a great principle as well, as, you know, we, as humans, inclined clients who speak too much and don’t, don’t listen much. So really developing, you know, that that listening skill, because it’s not only about me, it’s about the the other individual as well, and really getting behind their thinking, and making them feel feel important, and getting their perspective on a particular scenario. And, and I think that’s the ultimate is, from a financial advice perspective, it’s really about the clients deciding for themselves, what is best for them, you know, we’re not the experts, or the financial planners, not the expert in their lives. So again, I think it gets back to connecting with the heart, and really having these these deeper, deeper conversations with with clients to really get back to already understand, you know, their history, their values, you know, their, their relationship with money. And, yeah, so, you know, that’s what I’ve, I’ve given you a bit of a long winded answer. Yeah. But you know, it’s just really absorbing, you know, through reading through listening. So I think that’s been my philosophy. You know, over the years.

Louis van der Merwe
I like what you’ve said there about bringing some creativity bringing, bringing something different to the conversation. And as financial planners, running businesses, you get to look from the outside in, and you may be seeing the blind spots that we don’t have. I want to talk about what we do have that we can’t see. Want to talk about those two things. You mentioned it within your mandate, right. So helping people helping financial planners to remain independent and to continue growing their business. Has that become more challenging? Over the last, you know, 18 years?

Kevin Feather
Certainly, it’s, uh, you know, I think from a regulatory perspective, from a legislation perspective, it’s quite clear. And most recently, you know, we I surveyed a number of independent financial advisors and one of the issues is the regulation, the increasing compliance costs. And then what does that have an impact on? Yeah, it has impact on profitability as downstream consequences. So there are a number of, of areas that it really touches within your, your financial advice, firm, you know, which you have to be cognizant of. So, I think that’s a challenge for many independent financial advisors. And is the the answer technology? Yes, it most certainly is, you know, to really free up your time to spend more quality time, you know, developing deeper relationships, with with your clients and leaving the rest, you know, technology heavily

Louis van der Merwe
given when I speak to financial planners in Australia, or America or Canada, they told me the same thing. I struggle with regulation, I struggle with profitability, I struggle servicing the smaller clients. Do we feel unique in South Africa with our challenges? Or is it just hey, this is a global challenge that financial planners face,

Kevin Feather
I believe it’s a global challenge, I’ll give you one example is succession planning. That’s, that’s something that’s come up on our on a regular basis. And it’s it’s a global phenomenon to global challenge. You know, we’re the aging if a, let’s say population, if I can call it that. It’s most certainly is a challenge. And, you know, what’s the solution? Yes, bringing younger advisors into your business, which also comes with with challenges. It’s not a short term process. It’s, you know, it’s a long, long term process. And however, in saying this, it’s you you’re not in business for the short term you’re in business for for the long term. And, and succession, or succession planning or continuity, you what does that really mean, and it means that the business outlives the owner.

Louis van der Merwe
That’s such an important concept. And I think you mentioned earlier how we shouldn’t just think in transactions, we should think maybe in decades, and relationships, but is that what every financial planner signs up for, you know, especially someone may be in their early 20s, joining joining this profession and thinking that, hey, I’m going to make a quick buck. And this is going to be not a lot of work. But I want to share with you a story before you answer that. I had someone job shadowing me this week. And after the end of the day, we did a check in we said, you know, how did how did you find it? He said, Wow, I never knew this so much do what you do. Once again, until you lift the hood in you actually see what goes on inside a business inside servicing a client. Maybe clients don’t appreciate how much we actually do that they do not see. Yeah, I

Kevin Feather
think that’s a that’s a great point. And, you know, that’s what I saw over the years as well, you know, from in terms of managing your advice business. It’s not easy there multiple factors there. But to get back to the clients, is, you know, how do you articulate the value that you’re adding to them added to their, to their lives? And I think that’s what I’ve seen over the years is many independent financial advisors or advice businesses really struggle with articulating their value and really explaining what articulating and documenting that that value proposition to clients, and really explain that to to clients. I really believe the industry should be moving towards a fee for service. So kind of a model, you know, and it’s a move away from assets under management being paid on that, because clearly, I’m giving you my view, is that what what is the client? See, it’s about managing assets. And it’s potentially thinking differently, it’s about managing the individual and the service, you know, that you providing to the the client and really articulating that and really explaining that to the client so that they get get a very good understanding of what value the financial planners is offering them.

Louis van der Merwe
That I think it’s worth talking a little bit about how do we transition potentially away from assets under management into different fee models? We have one group of people saying, you know, clients don’t really care how you get paid as long as the value exceeds the price. And then you have another group of people saying, well, actually, I want to know I don’t want to cross subsidize, I don’t want to be paying for the smaller clients. I want to be paying for the service that you are delivering. And is that what you’re saying? This is your personal view. You’re not necessarily Alan Gray’s view. That’s,

Kevin Feather
that’s that’s my, my personal view. And this is what I’ve seen in the industry. You know, globally, I might add, because we’ve had a number of, let’s call it study tours to Australia. And, you know, it’s it’s really about, let’s call it a fee for service. However, with that comes a number of challenges as well, that we’ve seen over the years is, you know, invoicing. Yeah. Which, you know, you potentially need additional resource to to be able to, you know, manage the invoicing principle. But yeah, I think it’s important to start thinking about that, is this is this where the industry’s going, if we moving towards, you know, really developing this deeper human connection? It’s about what do you know, what’s your, your, your, your unique value proposition to, to your client?

Louis van der Merwe
Are there people in South Africa that are successfully implementing a fee for service model that you know of? is certainly, yeah. So it’s not about this can’t be done. It’s about how do we replicate

Kevin Feather
their ROI? My dad, what I’ve seen over the years is that there’s, there’s a hybrid model. I haven’t seen many advice businesses in all its eight independent advice businesses in South Africa that, you know, are purely fee for service. Yes, I’ve missed it somewhere. But what I’ve seen is, is really a hybrid model.

Louis van der Merwe
I think it’s also sometimes tasting a part of your business and say, okay, with BOD, we’re going to be doing this. And that’s maybe worthwhile talking about how when we think about business management, business planning, it doesn’t have to be all for nothing. We don’t have to now all of a sudden, you know, villainize assets under management, and completely only go the one way, we can start considering some of these alternative options

Kevin Feather
necessarily. And I think that’s, that’s a great point, because what we’ve seen, or what I’ve seen, is introducing the fee for service model selectively, because they are I’ve also heard that a number of advisors, were clients really prefer, you know, paying for that, that service and an X amount for that for that service. Yeah. So do you introduce that, you know, selectively see how it goes and maybe expand from from there. But clearly, I agree with you. There’s, there’s a space for for being acquired, you know, percentage of assets under management,

Louis van der Merwe
given apart from the unique value proposition if you had to step into a financial planning practice, and look under the hood and say, Okay, the first thing I’m going to look at to check that things are in place, what would that be? If you bought a practice tomorrow? And you stepped in? You said, Okay, given is now the CEO of further financial planning? What What would that look like?

Kevin Feather
Oh, that’s, that’s a very interesting question. Because we did some work on this. It’s a bet 566 years ago, as what do you look at when buying a financial advice business? And they multiple multiple factors is, you know, what are the funds that they’re using, you know, doesn’t match the funds that I’m using currently, as well, let’s look at the financials. You know, let’s look at your financial statements over the three to five years. You know, look, let’s look at your client base, you know, what’s the age of your client base? You know, is there any risk in in that, so there? I might add, there’s a long list, you know, of factors that you need to consider when going into to potentially buying advice business, the employees that you have the, you know, what do you do with your employees? So, it’s, it’s not an easy exercise. And again, in my view, you know, to go through that, through that process, and the research that I did is that there were two key factors Yeah. Has when you go into this, this process, is one is personality, and culture. And if those don’t match your culture and personality, then maybe it’s about walking away. That’s, that’s been my analysis. Okay. You know, from the research that that I’ve done, but again, as we’ve said, this, this is my structure of interpretation, and I might be wrong.

Louis van der Merwe
It is, however valuable because you’ve seen this same movie many, many times. And I’m hearing you say that it’s the health of the business, but more so it’s about the people and it’s about you know, their personal connection?

Kevin Feather
Yeah. And I think, maybe to add to that is, because I think this is a principle that many advice on its own independent advice businesses should be focusing on is really, what is my employee value proposition? You you, you know, you think about your flight value proposition or your unique value proposition, but what am I offering our employees to really stay with with me because that clearly that’s a, that’s a large investment in your in your business and, and you’d like them to be there for the long term.

Louis van der Merwe
Given the the work that you’re doing with Alan gray around improving businesses, I think is critical, because a lot of financial planners are just accidental entrepreneurs, you are a financial planner, you maybe become a little bit more successful, you want to do your own thing. And oh, now all of a sudden, you’re a business owner, you never set out to do that. What are you seeing from the businesses that are really growing faster than other businesses? What are they doing? Or what kind of people are they employing that are maybe that would surprise our our listeners

Kevin Feather
was prizeman ideas known, but I think it’s just about reinforcing it. I think the principle of having a para planner in your, in your advice, business, that’s one and I think the other, let’s say principle is having a a practice manager, or a chief operating officer for the want of a better word in the advice business as well, to take that responsibility, you know, away from from the advisor where the advisor can really focus on spending more time with a client, deepening those those relationships with the client. And you know, hopefully, seeing the business grow from there,

Louis van der Merwe
to someone to look after the engine and the back of the backboard that’s driving this this business,

Kevin Feather
definitely. But I think it’s really about looking at this from a client engagement process holistically, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Louis van der Merwe
absolutely. I mean, we’re running professional businesses, right? Why does a financial services business have to operate differently than other businesses that run successfully?

Kevin Feather
Well, I think that’s a, again, an interesting comment around business. And and what I’ve seen over the years is, and I’m going back to 2005 2006, where there were many practices, however, we’ve seen them evolving, certainly evolving from a practice to a business. And really, you know, it’s not just earning fees on an on a monthly basis, you now have introduced salaries into the, into the business. So I think that’s a concept, you know, moving or evolving potentially from a practice to a business. However, not saying that there’s something wrong with the practice because many, let’s say independent financial advisors run, let’s say lifestyle practices, and they really enjoyed that and they successful and nothing wrong with that. But the then you find the other one that really wants to grow their business, and really develop into into a business.

Louis van der Merwe
I remember there’s Rich Dad Poor Dad books that Robert Kiyosaki always said, If you can’t remove yourself from the business, you don’t have a business, you’re just self employed. And financial planning can be a great career if you want to be self employed. Yet, there aren’t many very big indie truly independent businesses where the financial planners, I think, are still actively delivering advice, maybe a handful of them. Do you think that’ll change over the next decade? Will we see more solo entrepreneurs more medium sized businesses or more groups? Or will the independent become scarce?

Kevin Feather
No, I don’t think the independent advice space now again, I’m giving my mind my personal view. Yeah. That the independent financial advisors is under threat at all. And I think it really gets back to, you know, your unique value proposition as an independent financial adviser. Starting a new independent advice, practice or business. The research I did we did, probably about eight to 10 years ago is, is really it takes about three to five years of capital. Well, you should have three to five years of capital to really sustain yourself over that period to really start building you know, a client base so the The one solution could be if you want to start off as a financial planners or independent financial adviser is join an independent advice business. And you know, through that learn, you know, through this process.

Louis van der Merwe
I’m so glad that research any came out now, because if I knew that at the time, I probably wouldn’t have jumped ship. But you know that once again, it’s I think the details in that that those are the averages, right you get people on either sides that might figure out different ways or have existing relationships, someone might need more, they might need 10 years worth of capital?

Kevin Feather
And most certainly well and clearly depends on you know, what it costs to run the advice business?

Louis van der Merwe
Do you think we’ve seen too much talk and not enough action? When it comes to businesses? You know, you’re speaking to practice managers and financial planners all day, like, Oh, they’re implementing enough of the things to actually make a difference? Or are they so selective, that when they implement something, it actually, it really moves the needle? Yeah, yeah. I

Kevin Feather
think what I’ve, I’ve seen over the years, it’s it’s not maybe a big bang approach. But it’s focusing on some key key things that have been identified, you know, that they need to let’s call it the development areas within within the advice business or development area, and slowly but surely, you know, developing that particular area, and then yes, moving on to the on to the next. Next area. But yeah, what I have seen too, in the past, is, implementation seems to be a bit of a challenge, when you leave it up to the individual, saying, in a lot of the cases, where others need a bit of hand holding, they need somebody external, to really implement on their behalf, they need that guide, you know, through this, through this process, I

Louis van der Merwe
think that also talks around the beauty of having a team where you might have different people bring in different flavors and different strengths. In areas, if you have one person responsible for implementing everything, you can do everything, you can do anything, just not everything.

Kevin Feather
And I certainly think on how to do that point is what I’ve also seen in advice firms is that, let’s say there are three advisors, each one might have a particular area of responsibility is it is a compliance as a technology. So really, you know, bringing that and, you know, then rotating, you know, those responsibilities over a particular period of time,

Louis van der Merwe
given we’ve got the financial planning standards board that released a updated framework for the skills that our financial professional financial planner needs to have. And I looked at it yesterday, and the last two said, tech savviness, and emotional intelligence. I was wondering what your thoughts are around the adoption of emotional intelligence around financial planners? Why is it so difficult? And why do we think we sometimes emotionally intelligent when our emotional intelligence might be in the basement?

Kevin Feather
Yeah. Again, I think it’s about, you know, really thinking, it’s, for the financial advisor really thinking that they, they know, the clients, they have a deep understanding of them, but maybe they don’t. Again, that’s just a general statement. So it’s really about, you know, developing those skills. Again, I want to refer back to a growth mindset is developing these new neural pathways and looking at that relationship differently. And, you know, focusing on the that emotional connection with, with clients,

Louis van der Merwe
I can hear that almost a sense of humility, saying, don’t just assume, and don’t have too much confidence in this space. This is something that you continuously learn and grow as your relationship deepens with your clients.

Kevin Feather
Well, that’s what my philosophy do is all my approaches, show me the person that knows everything, you know, and I think it’s really about constantly, you know, learning, learning through this process, absorbing and maybe through your networking as well. You know, really trying to find out somebody, you know, some principles with, with your peers in the industry, and through that process, you know, you’re learning as well and making refinements within within your own advice.

Louis van der Merwe
So over the last 38 years, you’ve witnessed a lot of this refining and changes and was there a point in time where people were a lot more optimistic or a lot more pessimistic about the role of a financial planner because it seems like It comes in these waves around, oh, euphoria or just, it’s the end. It’s the end of us all.

Kevin Feather
Well, again, my personal view is that you’re going to get that going forward as well. You’ll you’ll get the naysayers, you get those that are really, really positive about the industry. I’m very positive about the the the industry going going forward. So yeah, that’s, that’s my view.

Louis van der Merwe
Given thank you so much for a wonderful conversation. As parting wisdom, is there anything that you’d want to say to young financial planners just starting out, that might help them? You know, stick through the tough times?

Kevin Feather
Yes, I would think really building those deeper relationships with with clients. Really adopting this coaching way of being and that might be a bit of a foreign concept to too many people. But really getting that emotional connection with a client. And then, you know, putting the, if you’re running a, an advice, business or practice, getting the foundation, you know, in place is your marketing your operations, your people, and then your commercial side, which is the financial so really get that foundation in place. And you you must be successful from there.

Louis van der Merwe
Given thank you so much for the wisdom that you bring and how freely you share it. I appreciate it and you’ve made the whole profession that much better. Thank you so much.

Kevin Feather
Thank you very much, Louis.