AdviceTech Podcast #48 – Impacter – Transcript

Peita Diamantidis
Hello and welcome to the Ensombl AdviceTech Podcast. I’m Peita Diamantidis and the guest joining me here today to deep dive into Impacter was a finance journalist with the Australian Financial Review channel nine’s Financial Review Sunday program, Cap land professional and the ABC and is author of the finance the women’s index. Thank you so much for joining me on the show, Bianca Hartge-Hazelman.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Thank you. lovely to be here. Thank you for that intro. It’s lovely.

Peita Diamantidis
Not at all. Now I am super keen to dive into all things impacted. But first, our audience know we start with the the Easy breezy, getting to know you and how you use technologies. So let’s kick off with What’s your most used emoji? Do you even use emojis?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
I do I use I mean, have a couple really I and I know you’ve asked for one. So my preference is the week. I really like the week.

Peita Diamantidis
Personality run

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
and has a bit of personality. It’s kind of like saying, Yeah, I get it. I’ll be there rain label. But yeah, like the wind.

Peita Diamantidis
Perfect. And we all are so attached to our smartphones. How did we ever organize anything in our lives without them? If you had to wipe all the apps off your smartphone, what would be the three that you’d keep?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
This is a good one. I’d keep what I use and what makes my life easiest. I keep the Woolies app because I’m one of those be I don’t shop, I literally do my food groceries and get the get them delivered while I’m laying in bed. You have all that kind of organized. So I’d need that always ready to go. When we’re running out of stuff. Definitely keep the camera because I’m always snapping. I’ve got three little girls, we’re always snapping pictures and using that. And I’m always looking at LinkedIn.

Peita Diamantidis
Nice. I love it look, and I love to hear somebody else who avoids shops, food and other shops at all cost. I’m the same if you can get it delivered. That’s how I do it.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Yeah, just make everything is when you’re running a business. It’s all of the other stuff. Yeah. Just that you have to do that. Yeah, I’m not financial to the point yet where I can hire somebody to do that.

Peita Diamantidis
Right. But it’s on the list. I’m on the list. Awesome, awesome. So let’s dive thank you for that. Let’s dive into impacter, shall we? So to give the listener a sense of sort of a really high level and talk about where it sits in the tech space. This is broader than advice tech clearly. But talk about, you know, sort of what category does the tool fit in? And then let’s also talk about sort of, you know, how it came about why why you developed the app?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Yeah, well impact it is what categories it it sits in the Diversity Equity and Inclusion category. So the DEI software spaced Yep. And that has traditionally been a place of HR software, what we’re seeing with HR software is more di being a bolt on to your existing platform, or, you know, there might be a further integration. Impacter is a centralized self assessment platform that allows you to measure and track your di performance in real time, and then get actions for your performance, whether you’re underperforming or over performing, will provide solutions to how to do better. And the critical to what we’re doing is being able to validate through our accountability layers, how well a company is actually doing by asking the employees, are they feeling it? Are they is this company delivering on things like the gender pay gap and leadership diversity across many broad forms? Are they delivering on flexible work or, you know, parental leave all these different strategies, different things that might be in place. And finally, the only thing impacted does is really look at the business case for change. So we are an MVP, but we’ve started our product by looking at the financials of a company and then correlating that with how their organization might perform relative to their dei initiatives and in time, to the gender pay gap to their leadership structure. Do you have an insight that to try to break down this thinking that there is not much of a correlation between di performance when there really isn’t there? Increasingly, we’re seeing the research that is showing it, the more companies I tracking it, the more we’re able to say, Aha, it’s there. It exists. So where we’ve built that into the software as well,

Peita Diamantidis
and look, I think it’s such An interesting conversation because I’m with you for, like decades, there’s been all this conversation about business case to justify things like this. And what’s interesting to me about that now is companies are spending a fortune on employee wellness, right, and all sorts of programs that are about both engaging their employees, but but ensuring they’re, you know, the best versions of themselves. Surely, the environment they’re working within is a significant part of that. And therefore, and to me, that’s part of what di represents is the the environment, the vibe, the interaction, the weight, the leadership, how all of that works, is a contributor, and an ongoing contributor to an employee’s individual well being. So it’s so to me it unnatural, that we would want to be on top of this, if we want to retain great people.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Absolutely, it is about employee retention. And it’s about attracting the right people as well, to your workforce. And we are in a place space and time now, where if an organization’s not performing, it will soon be known. And there are many websites that do you know, even social media that do allow for this kind of naming and shaming or it gets around if you’re not really living up to what you say you are doing? And if you’re merely pink washing or dry washing? Or you know, it’s a greenwashing, yes, these things are increasingly on the radar of employees. So it is in any businesses best interest to invest in the IDE. Now, not all dei initiatives are relevant to that particular organization. So it’s a matter of, of looking at what might be. But that’s the beauty, I suppose of our self assessment tool. It’s kind of it makes it takes the guesswork out of a lot of, you know, where do I start? What do I do? Oh, god, there’s too much to think about here with di what next, you know, we’ve tried to work closely with the University of South Australia center of Workplace Excellence to develop an evidence based approach. And it is comprehensive, it is robust, there’s no getting away from that. But if you commit to this, and you can see the outcomes through positive performance or effectiveness Dei, then without a doubt, you should see, as you have just said, those correlations with employee retention, being able to say, hey, we stand for this and attract staff to your organization. And I think it’s one of those chicken performing things, you know, many organizations say, you know, we want to attract diverse candidates, but how do we attract them? Well, you know, you’ve got to be on the pathway to show that you are actually wanting to a change in the same

Peita Diamantidis
year. And look, I can see this. This, it’s impacted, right, so of course, it’s going to have an impact, but I can see it having impact in a much broader sense. You know, in financial advice, one of the biggest waves that’s that’s approaching us is the huge intergenerational wealth transfer that’s going to occur and that is going to end up per annum being bigger than super contributions per annum, right? This is going to be a massive financial shift of money. And the reason I bring that up is you know, one in four Aussies are born overseas and wanting to have an overseas born parents. So even just from, you know, from that sort of diversity and inclusion perspective, having an approach that understands different, whatever different is, and understands the variety of people that contribute both in your business, but also your client base, like all of this, to me, will make us better advisors, right? This is all about putting yourself having the ability to put yourself in somebody else’s shoes. Now, of course, gender is a huge part of that that’s, you know, just over 50% of consumers, but there’s so many other layers of this, we need to, you know, understand and start making habits, you know, like these are business habits, that just mean that our businesses better reflect the public,

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
huh, it’s a really good point. And I was I was reading something that Simon Sinek said the other day about customers, customers will never love a company until the employees love it first. And that is acquired that really resonates with me. And I think about that with financial advice, because I’ve been a journalist for some time following financial advice and financial services industry. And it really is important to truly understand decline to truly understand what your customers want. You have to see it also in your workforce to understand the different ideas and diversity isn’t just about the physical. It’s about the ideas. It’s about the approach to work, the thinking, the way the cultural background, the influences, all these sort of things. It’s not a matter of just having, you know, various people have different skins nationalities in your workplace. It’s a whole wonderful recipe of ideas that can hopefully allow you to understand and attract Klein’s to your business?

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, and look, we’re I mean, we’re we’re where we’re going there is true diversity of thought or ideas, you know, that’s where you get where it’s where the magic happens when we see a solution out there. And we’re just like, wow, that was amazing. Often, that’s because they’ve truly gone wide in terms of the way they look at or think about something that’s only possible. When not everybody is like, us, me, whoever you are, like, whatever your business looks like, you only get that sort of really innovative and interesting and dynamic environments, when there is diversity. And that’s all and of course, that comes from different lived experiences, and different lived experiences come from different ethnic backgrounds, gender, you know, age, you know, physical ability, all sorts of things contribute to those different lived experiences. So, yeah, I’m right there with you. I think it can be so easy to say all but I don’t think there’s any issue, everybody gets the same opportunity, don’t they? It’s like, well, that’s only coming from your own lived experience, you know, what’s required here is to be able to step outside your own shoes and into somebody else’s.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Absolutely. And I think this is where reverse mentoring can be quite powerful is understanding where you know, where it’s available where you can do that is understanding and stepping into the shoes of somebody else. And, and, you know, I’m throwing that out there, which I’m sure is coming at a time of increased cost pressure. And there is this consideration at the moment, can I afford to spend on D AI? Can I afford to invest in all these different things, and it’s, it’s really critical to the long term viability of businesses today to be doing something about this. Because the, you know, et Cie, being in this game of business is something that can be purposeful and long lasting, rather than so short term focused and just getting in getting out kind of thing, it really can have a greater impact. And that is the wonderful power of business. And I suppose advice as well.

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So let’s, let’s talk about the user experience for Impacter. So, I mean, it’s clear that there’s a leadership, you know, engagement with the tool, but over what layers of say, and let’s let’s talk of small to medium business initially, but clearly, it’s it’s designed also for for bigger business, but sort of what lays the business can interact with the tool, and what experience do they have as they do that?

Speaker 2
Sure. So any organization with five or more employees can use Impacter, we’ve deliberately done that because D, I shouldn’t be something that you reach a certain size and say, Oh, suddenly I care. You know, it really is something that we shouldn’t, we shouldn’t price smaller companies out of purpose. And so that’s why we’ve done that and staged a few different things differently there. But it’s, it’s about having the business owner, involved, or CEO. And then if you have it, an HR team, will predominantly those three types would do the initial steps. You might also involve your finance department for those financials and things like that. But certainly small, medium, and large, I think where we sit and we are early days with only just launched this product, I see us being of most appeal, and certainly the companies on the platform tend to be medium to large. Yep, I do hope then that our product will appeal to small and so we’ve got some other bits of functionality that will come out as we grow. Because that it’s important. It’s important for the bigger impact as well.

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so then, so the leadership team will be doing that. And I’m imagining that part of that self assessment process and sort of really taking those first steps. You then talked about getting feedback from the staff, how does that work? How often does that normally happen? Like, what are you expecting that that’s going to happen? As, as you know, businesses use the tool?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Sure. Well, the the beauty of the tool is we take quarterly data snapshots, whether you’re using it every quarter or not. And the purpose of that is for historical tracking. So we want to say ideally, that an organization is improving over time, and to give you the data back to have a look at whether or not improvements were made for you that really resonates now, how often a company comes in and does the updates is completely up to them may might introduce a new strategy, they might call half their workforce. Yep, there are things that that will need to be updated if those kinds of situations arise. So with quarterly data snapshots, we’d say surveyed your employees, no more than once a quarter, some organizations will do just once a year. And it’s really about having that bounce back on the latest picture of the workplace and the strategies in place. So we ask a lot about those equitable strategies around superannuation, flexible work, paid parental leave, leadership development, pay equity, different things like that. So there might be changes that might warrant an organizational leader to say, right, it’s time for us to survey again, or indeed, the organization might say, Let’s survey, like, I know, some companies do twice a year, to really get a sense, or that organization might have not performed very well at the very outset, and is on a mission to correct that result. So it’s really up to the company and to the goals, they want to set themselves and how quickly they want to get there. But the DI process is, is a long term commitment, it’s not something you suddenly get your score, and you’re there, and you’ve ticked all the boxes, because anything, and it’s about culturally setting the organization to ensure that you have that constant check in with your workplace to make sure that they still feel that they belong.

Peita Diamantidis
Right. And it’s that it’s interesting. It’s the type of health check that advisors do repeatedly with clients, but it’s almost like a workforce mental health check. This is this is going hey, how do you feel? And how do you feel about the space we’ve put in place for you? Is it a one to one to bring in?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
That’s right, absolutely. How effective is it? Could it be better? What what’s not great about it? You know, tell us tell us more. And we’ve tried very hard to ensure that the way we ask the questions are not leading it because there is it’s all too, there are a lot of surveys that are bias in the way they approach the questionnaires. We’ve tried very hard to ensure that that’s not the case with the way the academics have framed things. So yeah,

Peita Diamantidis
yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, it’s interesting with this sort of tool, I can imagine some people or some businesses sort of going, you know, the minute we measure something, it’s real or out there. It’s real, right? This is, you know, but that’s the point, this is not something that gets better. When it’s underserved. Like when it’s being ignored, it doesn’t get better, it gets worse.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
If you weaken, could we continue to ignore that, up until such a point that the, you know, person on the worksite keeps falling in the same hole? Like, yes, we do need to think about di as constant as something that does need framework around it to continuously support the employee. And I get that there is and they cease resistance, because in many ways for a lot of organizations, they’re still getting their head around D. Still, I mean, there’s there’s data out of the US is showing that d i recruitment for that diversity inclusion manager is among the fastest growing job types. So we know that organizations are hungry to make change where they can. But there still is this a bit of resistance around? You know, once we put ourselves out there, we’re out there. But the reality is, we live in a day where if you don’t do something, the risk is somebody else is going to say something about and if you’re not, we can’t we we cannot be blind to the fact that employees aren’t aware that all this is happening.

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely. And look, it’s financial services is is way down the list in terms of all of the measures you might put in that as a general industry. It’s it’s particularly bad on these fronts. And so, you know, saying, Oh, gee, now’s not the time. I think it’s like, well, it was the time, years and years ago, we’re behind. It’s not like we’re alongside other industries, we’re way behind. And so if we truly believe we want to connect with the public and help them, this is part of that, you know, this is part of that mission. And there is

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
an opportunity for an organization to be the leader of diversity, equity and inclusion. And, you know, I’d love to see that realize with financial services, you know, certainly, I mean, there is there is a lot of work to do. Absolutely. But progress it absolutely if done right is worth celebrating.

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, it is and particularly, I mean, as advisors, we’ve really conscious of greenwashing and other things that have gone on with investment funds, right. And so that’s a real thing we see all the time. This is an issue within financial services company. is a similar issue, there’s a lot of talk about it, they’ve even maybe got awards or things that like, there’s all this stuff that looks great on a PR release, you know, run a press release. But the actual measure internally of how this is going and how it’s changed over time is the best demonstration of impact and having a making a real difference. So I think, you know, if, if a corporate doesn’t doesn’t have a tool like this, you’ve got a question, well, what are they doing?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
And that’s what’s great about Impacter is you can use this information and your progress to tell that story to your customers in PR in marketing activities, both internal and external. You know, we do have a couple of financial advisory businesses on the platform. And I know they’re very active about how they’re progressing. And wanting to use impacter as a way to say, we’ve validated it, we’ve checked it, this is how we’re going.

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely, because progress is the truth. Right? I mean, I think if we, if any corporate or any any even small advice business came out and said, No, we’ve got it covered. It’s all good. Well, the public’s going to instantly suspect that because it’s not possible. We can’t all be perfect at something like this, because it’s so relatively new. So demonstrating progress. That’s what shows that you’re on it is that you’re making efforts.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Yeah, that’s right. And I think in this environment, there is a real risk of you mentioned greenwashing, before the regulator has put me since his on notice for the hat. And investors are kind of looking out for it. So we do have to be aware of what’s of what’s happening in the lens compliant.

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely. And so, in terms of then, you know, what’s what you’re seeing down the track, you mentioned, a few things that you guys are going to be adding is there, you know, what are the next sort of milestones for the app? What are you working towards, or going to expand and develop? Sure, you know, what, what’s the next phase,

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
what we’re looking at. And what we’re developing are more customization tools around tracking individual di initiatives that are outside of the self assessment. And then goal tracking assignments to that. There’s also an integration allowing for our uploads to go through to Weijia. And, and vice versa, to reduce the fatigue on gender equity questions, because that’s a big thing, you want to be able to measure and track ongoing performance around gender equity, you don’t want to lose it or be in a mad scramble when it comes time to report to ajia, which tense. So this is a way to make that easier. In an ongoing environment. So I mean, they’re just a couple of the things that I’ve said quite easily. But the actual is really something that’s entertaining, to say the least at this point in time. I mean, my background is as a finance journalist, so and when I produced the women’s index, it’s all around writing about the data and the findings. So the purpose in creating impact was to help organizations take action towards the big picture, equality and reduce those timeframes. Yeah. And so I’ve had to team up with tech experts, from financial services from different FinTech and out various technology companies to bring impact it to life. And it has been a, from a designer point of view, a real eye opener for me. You know, and there’s so much more that you can that’s excited me when I look at the tech world around AI and how we can use that with impact and all these different things that are very exciting. At this point in time, I think I saw an article around Microsoft this morning saying that ai ai contributed a significant portion to a record profits as a company. And that’s just the appetite for this type of tech at this point in time and where we’re going into the future with with not just technology, but our own services jobs.

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely. It’s it is both exciting and sort of, it’s actually a bit you’ve got to pause sometimes and just think how is this possible? I’m living in the movies that came out a decade ago, this is just nuts, but it is exciting. And, and I think very fast, very fast. And I think it’s it’s what I love is you know, Tech was always going to be used for things like analysis and tools like that, like we you know, financial advice. It’s all forecasting. What I love is some of this tech now doing things like what you’re doing here, like this is you know, human impact stuff that’s exciting. And we can start to use the tech for those sort of things. As you know, then it’s it’s amplifying the impact we can all have as individuals. That’s really exciting. Yeah, so it’s early days, it’s your How long has it been? Been? It’s been super excited. Yeah,

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
it feels like an age. But it’s been a minute, because you’ve been, we will development doesn’t start stopped. So you just launch. And then you just keep going, you just keep developing and you’re selling, and you’re, you’re talking about it. And suddenly all advocacy work really is selling and advocacy work. And it’s, and it’s, it’s a challenge when you’re a startup as well, because not many people ever want to be first, but often those that are rewarded for being first. So it is an IT is an education around it as well. But I’d love this kind of work, I absolutely thrive in this environment. And talking about these products and learning all the time, it’s like doing an MBA on steroids or something like that you’re constantly learning. And it’s, it’s, it’s a thrill for me.

Peita Diamantidis
It’s, it’s fabulous. And I think, you know, we all have tried new things and discovered the wonder and I’m imagining the, the the tool is only going to grow and amplified by the more people using it, you guys need people to start interacting with different types of businesses, different approaches, different strategies. So

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
it’s critical for the benchmarking across the platform. It’s critical for the insights that even me as a journalist is able to ride but also our partnership with the University of South Australia. Now, Adelaide, that which, with that merger going ahead, is is huge, because we’re able to inform the academic community as well at an aggregated level, about what it takes to be a top performer in this country, and that is really groundbreaking stuff. So the future of Dei?

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely, absolutely. Because it can’t, it just simply can’t be one of those sort of motherhood, you know, bumper sticker statements made any more, we are so far beyond that. This is all about action now. And so, you know, being able to give them data that truly demonstrates the impact that action can have, or not have, you know, if we don’t take any, I think that’s how you’ll actually get movement on things. Because in any business, you know, there’s priorities, and we’ve just got to try and nudge this up the priority list, you know, people have been paying more attention in a general sense to these sort of topics so that it just becomes part of the DNA, you know, it should be part of that automatically, do

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
you want to close this? I do want to put that out to listeners. So like we are early in our development, and it’s very exciting time. But we need feedback, too. So I’m open to feedback is part of this learning process. Because ultimately, you want to produce a product, that’s a benefit to your customers, if it’s not a benefit to their customers, well, they’re not going to use it, and then you’re not going to have the desired impact you’re after. So if I could say anything with this interview, it’s that I’m very open to to feedback, you know, it’s, we’ve got a lot in the pipeline. But you know, there might be suggestions or different ideas that are really, really important in this space.

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, absolutely. In the User user experience and, and how how it actually comes out in the wash, right, how it works, when you’re using it as part of the business is gonna be key to the impact you guys can have. Is there anything else we’ve missed? We covered off off the highlights?

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
I think we’re I think that’s, that’s pretty good on impact. I feel like, you know, I said before coming from being a journalist so that the move towards selling is a new one for me. Yeah. And I, I’m talking to you now, not from a sales perspective, but I’m acutely aware that we’ve just launched a product so therefore, you never stop selling when you’re in business. Do you? You just don’t

Peita Diamantidis
you don’t it’s a natural. It’s the it’s the part of the beast, you just can’t avoid it. Yeah, it works. Yeah, absolutely. But I think anytime you’ve got passion and real belief in the thing that you’re ending you’re providing to the to the public or to business in this case, then the selling is much easier.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Yeah. It is. Yeah, it becomes just verbal diarrhea of you can’t stop talking about it. But you know, I love I love what I do. I love the impact that we’ve had, we’ve been able to make through the women’s index. You know, that’s a report that gets over a million eyeballs per quarter now on gender equality alone, and we don’t do any paid media on that’s just through circulation and media picking it up. And the interest in where do we stand on gender equality time range, we’re at 24 years on that In the pay gap, so all these different things that we’ve been able to track over the past six years have really spurred a fire in my belly, but just keeps me going and have attracted a lot of really amazing people along for the ride as well. I’m grateful that I’m surrounded by a group of economists on the index, who review that report every quarter, that are just amazing. And there’s been many before them, too, that have all contributed to where we’re going with that report and the impact it has. And then likewise with it, which is huge. And it’s, it’s fantastic. You know, and, and I think that’s the power of when a when you make change in a business, be out on DIY, or maybe it’s ESG. It’s really about bringing along a team with you that believe in that vision. So you’re in this infinite game, not just this goal orientated business that has no real impact. And I think that’s probably the the big thing with di, and we’ll gender equity, whatever part you want to focus on. It’s really about getting your employees living and breathing, the change that you want to see, and creating those cultures that truly benefit the business and make you feel like you want to be there and show up for your client.

Peita Diamantidis
And that your team believe that you believe in it. Yeah, because you’re doing something about it.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Absolutely. The vision has got to be there. We’ve all got to have this vision of some sort that inspires. It just keeps your turning up.

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, absolutely. All right, advice explorers. If you’d like to find out more about impacted which I’m confident you will, or the fancy women’s index, any of that information will include the website link in the episode shownotes, along with Bianca’s LinkedIn details, I’m sure she can point you in the right direction of somebody that can then help you out if you’re looking to get a demo or, or are interested in the tool. Look, thank you so much for joining us here today and sharing what he’s a bit of a different tech tool for the podcast, I was really excited to have you come on and share it with us. And for finally to be live. We’ve been watching quietly snorkeling and

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
thank you so much. It’s been so delighted to be talking with you again in this forum as well.

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely, and best of luck. And you know, I’m excited, we’ve now got a tool where business can actually make some change, you know, on diversity, equity and inclusion. Those thank you so much for your time.

Bianca Hartge-Hazelman
Thank you so much lovely talk.

Peita Diamantidis
So what a different one. I mean, I can’t ask you listener, whether you’re a user of impacted because it’s almost certainly not the case, this thing is a month old. But I am curious about your take on a tool like this. And, you know, I’d love to hear from you on the Ensembl community platform on what your take is whether you think that could apply to the practice you’re in or the business you’re in. And, you know, it’d be interesting to hear, you know, the progress of any D AI strategies, maybe you’re seeing within the practice arena. Or if you do on your own, what your plans are in that space. In terms of my thoughts, what I thought it’d be worth doing is sort of giving us a baseline for this stuff that’s maybe new to some people look, if you maybe within product platform land or insurer land or large corporate land, then invariably, you know, diversity, equity inclusion will have come up at something you might have been to some training or aware of a department that looks after it within HR, like there’ll be something you’ve come across your writer, if like me, you’re in a small practice, then it may well you’ll be aware of it out there, there’ll be things you might see on LinkedIn about diversity, you might come across it at a conference, it’s not necessarily something that we’d have a whole department, you know, very often, most of the practice so what I wanted to just cover off is, you know, some baseline language that’s used in that in that sort of environment because I think it can help us better understand the challenges we’re facing and what we might be trying to embark on when we’re talking about this space. Because I think it’s easy when you’re not immersed in it to dismiss a lot of the language is overthinking or really isn’t such a big deal. You know, I don’t really say everybody has the same opportunities, don’t they? It’s all the same, right? And I think you know, when we think about it, you know, people often feel like why you say about the investing space lucky talk about all these details, really do I care? I don’t want to know, you know, I just want to know that I’ve got enough money, right? Well hear that from clients, right? And the truth is, you need to know more to be able to understand how to better play in that space, how to better utilize it and engage with it. So just like we encourage our clients to better understand when it comes to investing I think we individually need to better understand you know, diversity, equity inclusion, so we can we can see how things can evolve and and the impact it could have on our businesses but also, you know, our skills and as an advisor, so, in terms of the language what I mean is it’s just talking through Through the definition of different things, so let’s talk about, you know, reality. Reality is, you know, generally, you know, one person or individual gets more than they need, you know, they might have a lot of opportunity in my mind, I have, you know, a lot of things at their disposal, and somebody else gets less than they need. And this is where disparity occurs, right? Whether that’s on pay or opportunity or funding in a VC funding all sorts of things. There’s this difference, right? And somebody gets far more than they need, somebody else can’t get any. You know, that’s where the frustration sits.

And the often when we’re not exposed to these things, we think, Oh, well, what we’re looking for is equality. Right. And the reason I want to go through this language is, it’s not quite that actually, it’s more far, far, far more than that, and has more layers than that. So I want you to imagine that there’s, you know, a field, it’s a children’s playground, it’s wonderful. It’s got, it’s got bubbles blowing, it’s got balloons, it’s got fun games, and these kids are in there squealing. They’re loving it, they’re playing. And around this wonderful, fun filled field is a fence. And on the outside of the fence are some kids sort of peering trying to peer over, they can hear the fun being head, they’re trying to peer over the fence, one kid looking over the fence is tall enough, they can see over the fence, you know, the next one can’t quite like he’s eyes peering just over the fence. And the next one can’t even tell what’s going on. Because it’s not tall enough to see over the fence, it could just hear all the fun and the joy happening. Now the thing about and if you have that picture, those three keys, right peering into all these things happening that they can’t quite reach, then equality. The assumption behind equality is that everyone benefits from the same support. So in the in the little scenario, we’ll describe, they’d all get a box, so that they could stand on the box to be able to see over the fence right now, the first kid didn’t need it, because he could already see over the fence. So he just gets a bit taller. The middle kid yay, I can now see over the fence. This is great. I can see what’s happening. The third kid, the box isn’t big enough for them still for them to see over the fence. Right? So an equal box for everybody. You know, equal treatment for everybody actually is, you know, that’s equality. Whereas equity, everybody gets the support they need, right? So the kid that’s tall enough, he doesn’t need a box, you know, he’s good. So he can see over the fence, the kid in the middle just needs the one box. It’s all good, man, I’ll just take the one box, where’s the really tiny kid, he gets two boxes, he can finally see over the fence. Right? So equity is when they get the support, they need not equality where they will get the same support. Now, and I’m sharing this only because this was this was inside I didn’t have and so when I was starting to do some digging into this as a topic, stepping through this, and I actually got it a cartoon that a psychologist actually shared and I’ll share this on LinkedIn, when we go live with the episode, it’s really helped me understand what we’re talking about here. Now. There’s another layer, right? We can go further. Justice is when all three of the kids can see the game because the actual cause of the inequity has been addressed, it disappears, meaning the fence is gone. They can all see anyway. Right? So the actual the barrier, the systemic barrier has been removed. Right? So that’s justice, right. So that’s when now that’s a that’s a hard, that’s a really hard thing to achieve. Because often those systemic barriers when we’re talking about, you know, diversity, equity inclusion, those things are things that have developed over time that often we’ve never been aware of that they exist these barriers. So this is a very difficult thing to achieve. And this is an evolution right of our approach. But that’s what justice is. Now, inclusion is even further because inclusion says well, the kids shouldn’t be standing on the edge looking in, they get to be included in the fun that’s been had, they get to play with the bubbles, and they get to run around on all the great rides and squealing with happiness, you know, no one is left on the outside, you know, you don’t only remove the barriers, keeping people out, we actually make sure they’re all valued, and they’re all involved. Alright, so that is sort of the layers of the things we’re talking about here. And this applies, like I mentioned before, whether it’s gender, ethnic background, age, physical ability, you know, indigenous, indigenous background, all these sort of things are a lens to each of those sort of expressions are used the you know, whether the reality current reality, you know, focusing on equality, moving beyond that to equity, actually achieving justice for this issue, and then ultimately having full inclusion, right. So, the reason I step through that is, you know, if that’s sort of flagged for you, I’ll hold on my understanding isn’t deep enough on this, I’ve been making some assumptions about what everybody means when they’re talking about diversity, equity and inclusion. Then feel free to check out the LinkedIn post I’ve done to share the graphic that alone got me a long way and then start doing some digging. Now, as advisors, I think there’s more to be asked of us. I mean, there’s absolute need for things like impact in businesses we operate inside, encourage you all to nudge your owner or your team leader or anything like that and say, Hey, do we have a tool like this? Can I, you know, I’d love to hear about what we’re doing on this front. Absolutely, I’d encourage you to start asking and engaging on the topic. But we’re advisors, we recommend investments. And for many of you listening, you have a passion and your clients have a passion about ESG. Now, we’ve all heard of things like like greenwashing and all those things when a fund misrepresents, actually, the process they go to, right, that’s one thing. But I would suggest that if a fund manager is talking about, you know, applying a lens to the underlying funds, or or, or stocks and equities that they invest our clients money into, they also need to be talking internally about their own approaches to sustainability status, sorry, sustainability and governance, to diversity, equity inclusion, you know, that in their own business, not just in where they put our clients money, but in their own business, what are they doing on this front? And what can they share with us that we can share with clients because it, I think we’re going to evolve over time to the point where it’s not going to be enough to know the underlying investment has that lens, the public going to going to want to know that the person choosing those investments has that lens within the business they’re working in within that fund manager. So, you know, I’d encourage us to all start asking about that, Hey, what is your approach to D ID, you have a tool like Impacter, that’s showing, you know, a progression of a Tom we acknowledge Financial Services is why behind lots of other industries here, but hey, how are you going? What’s the progress? So I guess, you know, I think us just asking the questions and asking this, you know, repeatedly, lots of us asking it, we’ll start to see more and more of them actually prioritize this on the list of many things that they’re trying to develop within their business. So I’m hoping that, you know, this maybe flags in the interest for you got you more curious, maybe you’re going to do some more reading or digging, I’d encourage you to follow Bianca and her work at finance. See, there’s a lot of interesting reading there, too. But this is this is so much, so much bigger than just you know about our teams, this is about the public we serve, and making sure that that we can put ourselves in their shoes that we can create, you know, get a lens of their lived experience that’s much deeper than it otherwise would have been because we are opening our eyes to it for our own stuff. And therefore, you know, our ability to serve the public I think will be much better. And you know, the percentage of advised Australians I think will increases we can all better reflect them and and better empathize with where they are coming from. So now, in the last few minutes, we’ve got, you know, we all know that have a passion about curiosity, I believe the one skill we need to have to be truly be bionic advisors, is avid curiosity. So to help you build that habit, this week’s today’s curiosity corner website is a little bit of a gift. I’m getting asked a lot about AI tools. And there’s only a bajillion of them. Yes, technical expression there. I’ve got an actual background, I can say a bajillion is a real thing. There’s loads of them, and they’re just coming up all the time. And so like, Oh, is there an AR tool for this? Oh, is there an AI tool for that? And the answer is, I don’t know. There might be probably. And so I came across this website that I think could be really useful called Future pedia.io. That’s future, pe dia.io. And very simply, this is an AI tools directory, and they update it daily. And if you just head on it, you can you know that you can focus on tools that got added today. But you can also search for a particular category, I’m looking for something that does audio editing, I’m looking for something that builds avatars, I’m looking for something that’s you know, a customer support AI tool or a copywriting tool or an education assistant or you know, an email assistant or it does fashion or it does fitness. So, like basically they’ve collected them all in one place. And then they’ve also collated sort of feedback on them. So they’re scored. And you can see all the different tools that are available or accessible to do all sorts of different things. So no longer will you have to wonder, is there an AR tool for that task? Or is this you know, that thing that I find frustrating? Is there something I could use that could could help me along the way, simply use future PDR and I reckon that’ll get you a long way you in the right direction. Well, that’s all we’ve got for this week, folks, be sure to subscribe to the podcast. So you’ll get your advice, tech fix auto magically sent to you each Friday. And if you are stuck in a bit of a rut on process and tech projects going forward, or maybe even you’re part of a group, you know, maybe a dealer group where it’s like, Oh, I was like, oh, far out tech in here. This is a bit overwhelming, should we? Should we get new tech? Should we just focus on the ones we’ve got? Then I am doing a whole lot of keynotes and workshops in the future, about how we can become better, more tech savvy, we can make tech a key part of our infrastructure, infrastructure in our practices, and potentially how we can even stream light in the news, use less of it in the future and just use it well. So if you would like me to come and talk at an event in the future or you know, run a workshop for your practice, then please don’t hesitate to reach out I’d love to have a chat. And you can find me on LinkedIn at Peita M D. That’s P EITAMD. Otherwise all look forward to turning up in your earbuds next week. And remember advice explorers: Stay curious.