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Episode details

Peita Diamantidis 0:00
Hello and welcome to the Ensombl AdviceTech podcast. I’m Peita Diamantidis and the guests joining me here today to deep dive into HeirWealth. One started out in the pensions department for British Airways Mm Hmm Interesting before diving into a three decade long adventure of introducing new tech solutions to the wealth management industry and the other wall studying he also worked part time for an advice firm that is actually part of the broader ensemble family. Hello, Eva Lesko financial services. And despite being the youngest guest we have had also has a passion for vintage watches and vinyl records. Thank you so much for joining me on the show, Ray and Dan tapper, and welcome. Thanks for having us. Not at all. Oh, and I should mention first FATHER, Son guests. So that’s pretty we’ve had brother sister now we’ve had father son good work team. degeneration. Exactly. What’s the word we all hear all the time right at the moment, intergenerational wealth. If nobody picked up on that in advice, then they’re just not listening hard enough. I think it’s full on. So I’m really keen to get a really good understanding of the app. But first, I’d just like to take a moment to ease us in a little get to know you through your use of technology. So let’s start with emojis. What are your most use emojis? You know? Do you use emojis at all? Let’s start with you. Ray?

Ray Tubman 1:29
Well, being slightly of the older generation, I haven’t progressed very much in the States. It wasn’t that many years ago if I’m honest, that my kids correct me when I was calling them enjoys. But nonetheless, there’s my social media. Presence is mainly consists around dad jokes and funny cat videos. I like the laughing until you cry emoji. That tends to be my

Peita Diamantidis 1:53
Yeah, I love it any effect. I’d like to propose a that we all sign something that gets a change to enjoys. I think that’s a much nicer name anyway, because that’s what it brings everybody. Right. How about you, Dan, what’s your most use? You’ve probably got a few more years, I reckon on a daily basis.

Daniel Tubman 2:08
Yeah, absolutely. And it depends which application it’s in. So if it’s mobile, it’s either the probably the laugh until you cry emoji or the the duck emoji. No particular is just like ducks. Yeah. But if it’s on Slack, it’s got to be our custom elf logo. Yep. Or cat jam. Yep. So how cool

Peita Diamantidis 2:29
is it being able to upload anything as you’re like another emoji into Slack? It’s a cool little feature, isn’t it? Where you can add those, I’ve actually bothered to find the moving one. So we’ve got some dancing ones, and all sorts of stuff that we’ve put into Slack. I really love that we got off track there. Sorry, folks. Sorry, listeners. Now, if you had to delete all of the apps off your smartphone, and you’re only allowed to keep three re which three would you keep?

Ray Tubman 2:57
Probably my main social is Facebook. And I do tend to enjoy that, again, probably showing my age, but nonetheless, my slack. Because that’s how I communicate with my team. The most important of all, is a wealth of keep track of my family wealth.

Peita Diamantidis 3:16
Well, of course, I couldn’t I shouldn’t expect any difference, which puts a great deal of pressure on Dan because we’re about to ask him the same question. So what would your answer be?

Daniel Tubman 3:27
Oh, no. So my my main social media of choice is Instagram. I had to already remove Tik Tok because that’s a rabbit hole that is never ending. Yep. The second one would probably be Facebook as well. Actually, I’m gonna scratch that one off and say Spotify. Yeah, I love my music. And then the final one has to be a wealth. Just good to have an understanding of where all your net worth is

Peita Diamantidis 3:59
nice not being that was close to school. I’m super glad we got some it could have been. Exactly there could have been tears before we even got started. Fantastic. Alrighty, let’s dive into a Well, shall we? So help me get a sense of where it sort of sits in the tech space, sort of what category does it fall under? And is there any other tools that generally you’re lined up next to even if it’s not compete against like it’s sort of grouped amongst

Ray Tubman 4:27
I might kick that off. We don’t see this strictly being any advice based insofar as it’s not about providing advice. It’s not a portfolio reporting tool. It’s not a financial planning tool. We see it as a value added tool that intermediaries can provide to their clients we’ve targeted primarily at my net worth families, and it’s all about being a register Well, traditional investments typically only represent about a third of our net worth family’s wealth. So we sort of see it slowly as a value added tool, but by providing that to the family, with the ability to have multiple members of the family access and be able to see and be able to use that information, we think it’s a really good way of providing a much greater engagement. And it’s all white labeled.

Peita Diamantidis 5:32
Does that mean? Is there does that mean that groups like, you know, accountants are, so it’s generally like anybody that’s sort of, you know, working with these families would benefit from that? Well, their clients would benefit from the tool. And so that’s what you’re seeing is not just advisors, it’s all sorts of other players. Maybe it’s, you know, stockbrokers or whoever, whoever sort of engages with those families on a sort of more regular basis. Is that fair?

Ray Tubman 5:56
That’s absolutely fair. And in fact, we’ve taken to providing native integration for those organizations who do hold investments and do hold any consolidated positions to be able to natively integrate straightaway and wealth, but then that gives the family the ability to bring other assets.

Peita Diamantidis 6:19
Yeah, okay. Okay, perfect. So now, then, and I’m curious in terms of where this all started, because I’m betting given this as a route very well, very new app to market moments, even then, you know, what triggered this? So what was the initial problem that was solving? Was it one that you had all your business had? Like? Where did it all start? That caused you to realize that actually, there’s more people that need this type of tool out there in the market? Yeah,

Ray Tubman 6:51
this all started about three years ago, when, when I had to be executive for my dad’s estate, he didn’t have very much. But what he had was awfully hard to find scraps of paper and didn’t realize that he ever had shares when we found an old an OB share certificate, and then we didn’t realize the bank with other banks. And so it went on that actually, it struck me at the time. You know, I’ve been, I’ve been lucky as well, that was my personal estate, will be much more complex to sort, generally not what I was really looking for as a central place where I could keep track of the assets that I hold, and liabilities. Keeper central vault, helped me be organized on a daily basis. That’s where that sort of come from. We also looked at the market. Generally, high net worth advice groups, including my own provides Sterling support around my investments. But the fact is that only represents on average, net worth families, about 1/3 of their assets. And we weren’t suddenly encapsulated all of it. We also wanted something that went across different wealth holding entities, family trusts, investment companies, etc.

Peita Diamantidis 8:24
Yeah, okay. Which makes a lot of sense. And I think the one of the questions that that I’ve got about this, then because I’m betting it would come up for people is, and then I’ll be curious on your take on this is, so there’ll be people that will be really comfortable this think it’s the best thing ever, because they can put it all in there all the info all the paperwork, like I can just see it’d be great this vault and this font of information. And yes, I want, you know, the adult kids, they can see in so therefore, if they need access, there’ll be some people that might want it all there, but won’t necessarily want the kids act to see it all initially like, well, how are you guys imagining that certain families will handle that? Because it’s got to come up, right?

Daniel Tubman 9:02
Yep, absolutely. It’s one of the main things that we’ve focused on, actually. So we have different user types for different levels of permission currently. And so they can include the primary controller or alternate controllers of the family. However, they can also be read only access. Currently, we’re creating a default to privacy mode. So you can’t actually see any of the numbers and financial figures. However, you can see what the assets are short, which is a good starting point. But we also have a state executives as a user type so they can gain access upon death as the primary controller. Or yeah, we’ve got a wide range of those user types to help deal with that level of permissions. Yeah, because it’s

Peita Diamantidis 9:53
an it’s, look, it’s such a different one that nobody talks about this stuff right for starters, right? So very few families are having open core Have assertions about these things. And therefore, the default is avoidance. You know, that’s what we all do about something that’s difficult to talk about, we avoid, and not realizing that, like you say, even if not being able to see the dollars, even if it’s just the list of items, the ease even before death, the ease for like a power of attorney situation, if you’re trying to, you know, something’s happened, and they can no longer manage the situation, trying to get to the bottom of those details, is like pulling teeth. It’s horrendous. And some people even end up quitting work for a period of time, don’t they just because the task is so hard, and is so big, so having something that absolutely sort of acknowledges those stages, and, and that this doesn’t need to be an all, you know, look, here it all is, and you know, cause all sorts of conversations, maybe they weren’t ready for at least it’s a starting point, I think that’s powerful to understand that this is a bit of a journey for families to go on.

Ray Tubman 10:53
It’s interesting, you say that, because the first time I showed somebody from a particular trustee executor company, the first thing they noted was we also keep family contacts and what roles they fulfill for either assets or the family. They went, that would be a huge step forward, just because often we do this and we don’t even know who’s the lawyer or the account. Right? You know, I think that sort of stuff is that daily, very, very useful. Not necessarily glossy and shiny, but really useful features,

Peita Diamantidis 11:33
isn’t it? Yeah. And it’s so interesting, the, you know, the devil is in the detail. And when we’re talking detail, it’s in the minutiae of the administration, isn’t it, it’s just that all those little things that, that we all hold in our brains for our own situations, not recognizing that that’s not particularly useful to everybody else involved, it becomes very difficult to get access to. And then the old, I mean, it’s got even worse now, I mean, the old days, like you just said, Ray, you’d, you’d like dig through the paperwork, there just be a pile of files or some corner with, you know, paperwork in and you could dig through it. That’s much harder now, right? I mean, even just getting access to the emails or wherever everything digitally is going to be, that’s not easy, you know, that in itself could be a barrier. So, you know, it’s an interesting thing to at least give some forethought to that. So that people can sort of transition into that. So let’s talk then, clearly, primary users are the customer client, and they’re like the the individual and their family members, like you say, I’m guessing then is there secondary users, therefore that can be the solicitor or the, like the can they actually be a user of? Or is it more likely? They’re noted as just contact details? And somebody?

Ray Tubman 12:44
Yeah, I guess we, we, we’ve targeted, obviously, we’re family. So as at our initial as our initial launch. And as you say, we sort of see interesting dynamic, I think, from people who are just high net worth families, to people that are very, very ultra high net worth families. And, you know, I think there’s a lot of self service at the low end of that wealth spectrum. And as you go up into sort of family office type levels, that’s when we’ve catered for sort of administration being appointed administrator, as a user of a wealth. I think, as you rightly said earlier, we’ve got this whole concept of trusted family members. Whilst we’ve got that concept of you can appoint read only users. But not everyone’s black or white, not around good or evil. We’re, we’re actually working with an Enterprise Client, initially, about actually putting in a whole bunch more of slicing and dicing criteria. So be able to say, yes, you can see my investments, my bank accounts, but not my collectibles, or being able to put a finer grained security. But I guess the secondary users are definitely those other appointed viewers or access family information. And that can include the advice, advisor. Net respect, we don’t differentiate we have different use of times. And it’s controlled by the family. So the family controls who they want to see. In fact, even important, security threat massive. We can’t even see the data. So we built it on what we call a zero net Knowledge architecture so that not even we can see it. So it literally is in the hands of the controllers of the family has to

Peita Diamantidis 15:06
be perfect. And it’s Amin really having to actually pull together the information and then decide on access, like, all of those things are a great framework for acknowledging people’s roles. I mean, there’s some, you know, in a different space, we’re not sort of, you know, high net wealth necessarily, um, although, for our niche, but we’re working hard to engage with sort of that Gen X chief family officer, you know, that person that sort of coordinates everybody, and, and it’s starting to worry about Mom and Dad, and what they’re doing in retirement, and, you know, all that sort of stuff. And, you know, these people do have a whole lot of responsibility and very little resources, you know, at their disposal. And so, you know, similarly, for what you’re talking there is, you know, the bigger end, then it makes such a sense to just force them to think that through, you know, and so that the parents can go Alright, well, who do we want to, you know, have access and why. And we’re gonna have to be able to tell them that like, we like it forces, I think that sort of conversation and engagement, which not necessarily everybody has had, you know, and they might have just lifted assumed they might have just assume people know, that we would want so and so to be the one that’s doing this, you know,

Ray Tubman 16:15
there’s been some really good research, and that sort of shows that. Mums and dads don’t want to talk about death, because they don’t think it’s about to happen. And the kids want to talk about it. Because it sounds like they’re being greedy, money grubbing. But at the end of the day, this is all about having a document. That’s the first step of any transfer plan is to have it documented. We’ve, we’ve built a wealth, so not on a basis of we’re not focused on this. We’re actually trying to make it really useful. While you’re still kicking, I think.

Peita Diamantidis 17:00
Yeah, absolutely. So then, I mean, interestingly, I could see an opportunity for advisors to see this as more almost an added value, you know, they could introduce their clients to this to sort of bring their clients to the next level of organization, the next level of because it’s that proactive thinking, isn’t it like it’s saying, Look, we get that you don’t want to really think about these things, and you maybe have gone to the solicitor and done the wills, and all sorts of other legal documents, that’s great. But there’s more to it than that, you know, there’s, there’s a communication exercise that’s gonna need to happen. Let’s get that started. So I think that, to me, is an interesting engagement concept, particularly given and we laughed, as we were started, you know, the intergenerational wealth transfer, which is, you know, a key word search that clearly is applying to almost every second article in our industry at the moment, but it’s true, I mean, it’s not going to be long before the dollars transferred each year, for intergeneric, generational wealth transfer will be bigger than the super guarantee compete contributions for that year for the nation, you know, like, it’s this is these are not small dollars. So I think, something like this, that gives you a way to add value, connect with different generations, those things are good, like, That’s powerful. You know, it’s not just saying, Hey, we should talk to the kids. It’s just saying, Here’s a tool, it’s fantastic, it’s going to add value to you. And naturally, why don’t we facilitate some conversations, say, with your adult children

Daniel Tubman 18:25
completely, and it’s also a white labeled solution. So whichever sponsoring organization decides to implement our wealth, it’ll be natively branded with their logo and brand colors, so that that regular engagement is also engaging with the advisors branding, rather than just us as a third party. So hopefully, that helps reduce that client retention around 30%. Upon inheritance of money.

Peita Diamantidis 18:55
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And now, just to remind me, is this a intended to be a mobile app? Is it a web, you know, sort of desktop based? Like, what’s what’s the intention? Like? What’s the best way to utilize it? And what are the different ways, you know, a consumer could utilize the tool?

Ray Tubman 19:11
Yeah, we’ve implemented this as a PWA. So it’s a progressive web app, which means on your, on the desktop of your phone, or your iPad, you can do virtually virtually everything. On the mobile. I use a wealth of time on my mobile, couple of setup things that we prefer to use a web screen which is setting up some of the relationships between family some of the connection to external banking, or investment providers. So there’s a couple of things that are set up on day one on a desktop on a site head works fine, it works fine as well. But when you’re on mobile, everything else is able to be done from the mobile. I mean, we, when we built this, I always said to my development team where we live, I want to walk up to something, take a picture of it, and onboarding, it’s got to be there.

Obviously, we’re talking outside of the traditional assets, but we’ve got to onboard it, it’s got to be mobile, it’s got to be as automated as possible around valuation.

Peita Diamantidis 20:32
Well, and look, it’s interesting, you say that I’ve, I’ve got somebody I know, a good friend of mine who has worked previously for a family who were in the y at the top end of this scale. And one of the senior family members passed away. And one of her responsibilities was to go down into the wine cellar, right. And this is somebody who doesn’t drink wine. So the poor thing had to sit there in these dark, dingy. And take photos of all because because they’ve never really done a recent, you know, assessment or collation of all of that. And then where does that go, and how’s it get saved and collated and like, it’s because it’s something you could actually on bidding, you could do over time, too, if there was something that was quite detailed like that, you could just go you know, every time we go down there on the weekend, we’ll just do some more of them. So we’ve captured them or whatever, you know, this is if you’ve got a place to put it, then that just makes it that much easier to start collating that information.

Ray Tubman 21:29
onboarding of information is really important. You want to explain what we do to help onboarding?

Daniel Tubman 21:37
Absolutely. So when we are initially onboarding, we’ll have a native link to the advisors back office software. So whether that be premium x plan, so we’ll build out that integration to have regular valuations fetch, to help automate that process. Second step would be allowing families to leak into a world of banking and investment products through one of our partners. And so because we’re ISO 27,001, certified, were able to benefit from the open banking protocols. So we can get those native links to all the about 900 different financial institutions in Australia, okay. And any of those non traditional assets, we can bulk in or Okay, so whether they be your collection of watches, records, wine, for instance. Yeah, we create a, an Excel spreadsheet to help aid that

Peita Diamantidis 22:41
beautiful, okay, because that’s the one thing that has got to be a direct link rockets is the further up the wealth sort of chain or mountain you go, the more likely there are to be more unusual assets, right? The less simple and vanilla things go, there’s some collection of whatever it’ll be, and it’ll be something you never would have thought somebody could collect. But there’ll be that and it will have inherent value. And so, you know, it’s an important part of, of pulling all the information together. So open banking, fantastic. And that’s, of course, I’m, well, I’m imagining that’s just going to get better and better as as it becomes more and more utilized and a given. So that’s fantastic. Is there any other even down the track integrations you’re expecting? Either direction? You know, so that then, I guess, given us from the consumers perspective, then most of those will be focused on the the consumer rather than the advisor? Is that a fair assumption? In terms of integrations?

Ray Tubman 23:36
Yeah, we we, we are currently building in in a face to zero. We expect to do miles after the whole idea is to build a new balance sheet from an accounting package and have it represented on a daily basis. We think at some point in the future, we’ll also go the other way. So your investment portfolios can be reflected back into mild not working on.

We’ve, we’ve got for those investment portfolios, which are not covered by the current integration we’ve got. If you’d like a generic format, that you can read this portfolio, we see that number specific for dedicated formats on as needed basis. And, you know, what we were trying to form relationships at the moment with the likes of back office for VC funds. So you can not pull through quarterly valuations when they do value values, but but also things like the future commitment This kind of information to assist because, you know, from what we’re seeing a lot more wealthy families are investing in private equity and things like understanding your total combined future commitment have this sort of important feature. So we’ve got a lot of integration we’ve got, it’s funny, we’ve gone live, we’ve got a whole bunch of functionality, but we’ve actually got a future features list as long as we’re working.

Peita Diamantidis 25:33
I bet and I bet a part of it is also getting more and more people onto it. So that then you can work out, you know, either what isn’t on the list or watch what you’ll, you know, juggle, like, what will you move forward and change the order of because of demand or interest? You know, that’s that’s always the case, when you’ve got something that’s relatively new, in terms of then that development path. You’re what do you see, clearly, you’ve got a list and they’ll be you know, that’ll be Well, I hate to take to tell you a bit. It’ll be perpetual. Having spoken to so many tech providers, it’s clear, it’s never ending, you’re constantly developing it. I’m a bit curious, though, about the sort of more blue sky future for wealth, like, is there any way that you’re thinking? Well, as we, as we get further, we get more users, you know, we get more take up, it’ll be interesting to see if we can take it to a, you know, another place or a different market? Is there anything like that in the future that you, you throwing around as ideas.

Ray Tubman 26:29
So firstly, by virtue of the fact we’re not getting transactional, we’re not getting tax, we’re not domestic nature, we see this as being a global product. So we were multicurrency, we support all the currencies, all the stock exchanges in the world, all the Kryptos, et cetera, et cetera. So what we do think in the future, is, firstly, we massively anybody that comes onto this platform, I said before security is of utmost importance. And likewise, we don’t want to be hammering with advertisers. So there’s none of that. But I think as a community, as a community, I would like to have subscription channels, I call it So potentially, if if, if I as a user of a wealth 1am interested in capital raising, that there could be a subscription channel that I could subscribe to, to see updates. You know, I could see there being offers of, potentially, if I’m in the classic cars, and I want to publish the car into the community, without actually being advertised publicly, I think, I think there’s a lot of areas like that. You know, as a general principle, what we’re talking about within our wealth is a digital balance sheet. And I see the ability to share your balance sheet with a loan provider, right, to be able to share a portion of assets with an insurer. So I see this, as you know, we, we maintain that sovereignty at the end of the day, with the families, that they’ll have a lot more use from, how they, how they use their balance sheet and hopefully take a lot of manual process out of a whole bunch of processes, right throughout their life.

Peita Diamantidis 28:39
Absolutely. And it’s an interesting, interesting concept that sort of streaming for and a bit of expression of subscription to something you’re interested in, right? Because and not every advisor will be in that sort of game. And we certainly aren’t for our clients. But I do know people that for example, some of them love funding films. Right? They love that, you know, they know nothing about it right, clearly, but they love that concept. And so want to have something that just keeps them up to date on what’s going on, what are the new opportunities? What are the you know, and it’s not just on a, based on somebody being able to get through to them. It’s something that could be more of, you know, stream of information and opportunities and updates. You know, it’s an interesting concept to that is quite unique, but certainly for, you know, the market you’re talking about, I think could be quite valuable and interesting to them. For sure. So then, okay, well, the regular audience, and I think, actually, you mentioned this when we were running through the questions that normally I’d be saying, hey, you know, what are the what are the ninja users doing with the tool, which probably a little early to suggest that there’s,

Ray Tubman 29:46
I’d like to think that I’m the

Peita Diamantidis 29:48
Right exactly. We’re talking to the ninja user. He folks Absolutely. But is there any of the features that you think and actually then I’m curious on your take on this. So as a But for younger generation, do you see that there’s going to be features you guys are going to have to develop that will appeal differently to the different generations? Do you see that as being something that’s maybe it’s the way things are represented the way they provide it or anything like that, that you’re just going to have to have that? You know, that sort of lens that generations?

Daniel Tubman 30:18
Yeah, yeah. So with that majority of the team is in within their 20s, who have developed this apart from a few notable exceptions. So we’re

Peita Diamantidis 30:31
only just out of your 20s, right.

Daniel Tubman 30:36
Yep. And so they’ve all developed with the mindset to appeal to the next generation, primarily. So it’s a super user friendly application, but isn’t the traditional financial app yet, meaning that it is all just numbers and like, inline, it’s very user friendly, it’s UI focused. And so I think it’s already been built with a lot of those features inbuilt. But there’s also a bunch of intelligent tech in there that we’re using. So including start with a photo which uses AI to recognize what asset type, you’ve just taken a photo of nice puts you through the onboarding, okay. We’re also working on one for unbolt onboarding of a car, it’ll pre fill the registration number, and then fill out all the details of that car. Okay, as well. We’ve also got a wealth calendar that provides important financial events and indicates that to the end user, so these can include revaluations insurance, renewal vesting dates and private equity. But these also can be modified and created by the user. For those those non traditional assets. Yeah, so if you need to get your watch service, your your cause registers coming up. Yeah, what building

Peita Diamantidis 32:01
that app that’s, and it’s an interesting concept, the timing thing is really interesting, because I did many years ago, we’re talking like a couple of decades ago, I did some work for a company that was owned by a large, a wealthy family, very, very wealthy. And what was interesting was how important dividend dates when you when you own a business, and that’s generating wonderful income, suddenly, the dates, dividends get paid become very real, because that cash flow, man, this is not, like Shall I might have a job that pays, you know, some sort of salary, but the real money for them in cash is on these dividend payment dates. And so they became, you know, in bold laminated on the wall type of dates to be aware of. So it makes sense that that would be another way to ensure that everybody’s on the same page. And, you know, we’re all and we’re not, you know, you’re not getting phone calls, perhaps you don’t need to have that can get a bit angsty. If there’s an app that can just answer those questions, then it’s not creating tension, or, you know, like adding this unnecessary, it’s just an administrating, you know, bit of information. So that’s quite powerful. I think.

Ray Tubman 33:06
That’s, I think one of the bits that’s engaging, right, having all of that information in your wealth calendar, one of our future developments is to actually just extend that out to integrate with to your Google Calendar or your app. That sort of push notification that you get through LLC is actually quite important way of engaging and ensuring, again, that that hero brand shows up on a on a daily basis.

Peita Diamantidis 33:37
Absolutely. And it’s an interesting concept, you know, designing it like you’re saying, then designing it from this sort of the next gens perspective, to me, makes that a wonderful opportunity for for advisors that haven’t yet tapped into that generation, because you’re not telling the parents or engaging with the parents trying to convince them to engage with the next gen if you’ve got something, you know, will be valuable, but also is not they’re not going to balk at, then that that’s an easing to that transition, that I think will make a big difference. It’s something we’re all going to struggle to face is the entire financial services environment is tailored really for both Boomers and Gen X. Right? It’s sort of all built for what we’re happy to put up with, which potentially hasn’t been quite good enough in a communication sense, right. So so the fact that this is really coming from, you know, the next generation of what they what they used to what they used to the way they used to engaging with things, that’s powerful because it’s taking away another friction point. Now, the reason people won’t use this, is there anything we’ve missed in terms of the tool and what it’s able to do?

Ray Tubman 34:49
We’ve talked about the context, the wealth calendar, the document vaults massively important for me. We’ve talked about the benefit That’s to the family themselves is actually a big benefit, I think, to the advisors of the family who have access to view this because I mean, I, I recant on my position, and I did a balance sheet in 2007. And I don’t think I’ve really been asked for balance sheets. So I think to myself, well, you know, I shouldn’t be putting, say property within my portfolio, because I’ve bought property since 2007. Year. So I’m saying the benefit to the advisor, I think it’s really useful to be able to get access to actually the overall asset allocation for a family, even including the assets that they don’t know about, as well as the assets they do know about, because I think, the end of the day that a basis on which better advice can be given. The other thing for me about engagement is as much as everybody loves investments, what people are actually really engaged with are their passion investments, their items of collectible, their wine, or their artwork, or their jewelry or their watches, and actually buy into melding the traditional and the passionate investments together. That is actually what creates another level of engagement that we perhaps will never see with just just financial numbers.

Peita Diamantidis 36:35
Absolutely, absolutely. And it’s, I think more of the tools we’re going to be using with clients or for clients will be consumer centric, because that’s what you’re really saying is it’s about what they value what they’re interested in. And we just happened to be party to that, you know, we’re sort of ancillary. And I think it’s an important shift to be honest in attitude for all of us. And of course,

Ray Tubman 36:55
by knowing what your clients passion investment, it actually lets you engage with them. A more natural way for them as well.

Peita Diamantidis 37:04
Absolutely, absolutely. All right advice explores, if you’d like to find out more about a wealth, then the website link is in the episode show notes. I’ve also included Ray and Dan’s LinkedIn details, so I’m sure they’d be happy for you to just reach out and give him a bit of a nudge. And they can arrange a demo for you. Thank you so much for joining us here today, gents. Sharing how a wealth can contribute to this intergenerational wealth transfer challenge we’ve all got, and actually providing a solution. So thank you so much for your time.

Ray Tubman 37:34
Thanks, I appreciate your time, as well appreciate.

Peita Diamantidis 37:38
So you definitely won’t be a current user review, well, thumping, listener, because this is a brand new app to market. But really curious on your take, whether you think that’s the sort of thing you could fold in for your clients, how you might do that, what you’d be looking for, please be sure to share any of that feedback on the Ensembl community platform, I’d be really interested in your take, because I think, you know, these early access apps, we can really shape how they evolve over time by the feedback we can give them and the insights. And each of us look at these things quite differently. So you know, it’s fantastic to be able to give them those, those, you know, insights and even ideas for what might be valuable. In terms of my thoughts, I think, you know, I mean, we joked about the whole intergenerational wealth transfer, but it’s a real thing, it is coming. And it’s going to be significant. And for many practices, they will have heavily weighted Boomer or maybe Genex based business. And so having a constructive and helpful way to connect with the broader members of the family and therefore, move on to potentially adding value to them too. I think, you know, we’ve really need to need to seriously consider the options. And what’s interesting about this is, if you do it from a position of helpful, you know, being helpful and really understanding what challenges they’re facing, right, asking the question, you know, seeing down a group do market research sessions, I’ve done them recently, where I’ve had a number of people in our niche that we’re looking at serving, and I’ve had them just on a zoom, or Google may call five or six maybe and rather than sort of really, too narrowly focusing on the questions from a money basis, it’s more like what’s keeping you up at night? What’s frustrating you? What are you dealing with, that means you just can’t chill out and relax and think about the future or try and get to the bottom of what the initial blockages are. And that’s going to really help you define what tools partnerships, apps, you know, consultancy programs, you know, all sorts of courses, you know, there’s gonna be all sorts of things that you could add value to that, by tailoring it to the problem they’re solving right now, will mean you’re there when that problem solved and they’ve got the bandwidth and the wherewithal to think about the future. Right and then then you can lean into the sort of more traditional parts of advice. So, you know, I think the more we can can we can really get creative about the way we can help, then I think, you know, we’re going to become just that Guru, that person that they instinctively trust and want to lean on even even just provide updates of the challenges they’re facing. And that’s that really trusted partner, that I know that we all feel we are for our clients, and almost certainly are, but I think we can take that and and transition that to their adult kids as well. I think there’s a wonderful connective sort of tissue we can become for them by providing solutions that help with that, and even help them create a better connection with their adult kids. So I’d love to hear what you think, though, in this respect. So please, reach out. You can also, in the, in the episode show notes, there’s a link there where you can even send me a little audio question or feedback. So I’d love to hear from you. If that’s the case, now we have come to that time. It’s curiosity, corner time, folks. And, you know, we need to keep on building this avid curiosity, we need to make sure we’re on our journey to become bionic advisors. So today’s website that I want you to take a look at his cold, forgot a Fae. Now, this is not for business, right? This is for you as super wonderful, awesome human beings that you are, you can find it at forgot to And basically, their premise is that millions of songs on Spotify have been forgotten, right? Because we all get these playlists we like and then it you know, suggest things that you’re like that attend tangential to that. But it doesn’t really encourage the random discovery of music or even the music they haven’t heard for years and years and years and years and years. Right. So this actually is a tool that gives new life to music that’s gone undiscovered for some time in Spotify. And so it’s that website, you just go on, you click on Start listening, and it just brings up a song you can listen to and you can go Oh, that’s pretty cool. Do I like it? Do I want to add it to my Spotify feed. So it’s not living quite in Spotify as much as Spotify is the way within which they’re playing these, these tracks for you. And it just lets you discover new or very old that you haven’t heard for some time, or maybe not so old, but it just sort of got drowned out by something else. Music and I love this as a really simple frustration. It’s letting you stretch your brain, your imagination, listen to something a bit different, get those neural pathways working. So I’d love you to give it a work and see if there’s something you’ve you’ve discovered that you really enjoyed. If there was some music you loved, that you hadn’t heard put off before or not for quite some time, hey, send it through to me, I’d love to hear it myself. So that we can all sort of broaden our perspectives that bit more. Well, that’s all we’ve got for this week, folks. So be sure to subscribe to the podcast. So you’ll get your advice, tech fix automatically sent to you each Friday. And if you’re getting that sort of tech overwhelm, you know, and you sort of wonder if, in fact, you need to streamline your tech rather than take on more apps and your business then hey, give your dealer grip and nudge get them to reach out to me or feel free to reach out myself yourself and connect me with the right person. I’ve been doing sessions and workshops at conferences around the paradox of advice, tech abundance, and all the, you know, choices we have versus the potential drawbacks of all of these choices and how advice tech minimalism might work for you, in fact, and you know what habits we can build to keep your advice process humming from a tech perspective. So if that sounds interesting, then please don’t hesitate to reach out to me on LinkedIn forward slash Peter M D. That’s p ITAMD. And I’d love to have a chat. Otherwise, I’ll look forward to turning up in your earbuds next week. And remember advice explores Stay curious.

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