Engine Room Podcast #10 – Brad Rogers – Transcript

Andrew Rocks
Well, I’m really happy to be sitting down with Brad Rogers, from WealthShore today, Brad runs a great business out of Warrnambool in Victoria, and in fact, is already on his way to dominating the southwestern Victoria, with quality advice with a real sort of friendly and cultural basis. So, without any further ado, Brad, welcome to the Engine Room podcast.

Brad Rogers
Thanks for it. I really appreciate you having me on today.

Andrew Rocks
Well, and look, you’re a really happy guy. I remember meeting you a couple of years ago, and you’ve just came across as as an everyday kind of person, in fact, two seconds ago as Bradley or is it Brad? And he goes nah mate, it’s Brad. So I’ve that kind of jocularity is the outward facing Brad Rogers. But I know that you’ve got a steely disposition and you’ve got a real business focus. And with that in mind, I’d love to get to know you and our listeners would love to get to know you. So what, what is brought you to running a financial services business called WealthShore today, where do you come from?

Brad Rogers
So I’ve, I’ve probably maybe had one of the more traditional type route to the more general I went into the Commonwealth Bank graduate program of all places, so don’t hold that against me. But it’s

Andrew Rocks
pretty cold tonight, the cardigan comes in handy.

Brad Rogers
So I went through the graduate program. And then from there, I spent a little bit of time in Canberra, I shipped through, I saw the writing on the wall with Commonwealth Bank, probably. And then I jumped and went to the St. George beach model, which was effectively the self what I would call the self employed model with steel within

Andrew Rocks
a bank and what year what year was that

Brad Rogers
car we’re talking we’re talking 2007 2008 was when I jumped ship from the Commonwealth Bank. And then obviously, the Westpac St. George merger happened and I lasted about a week. So from there I that’s basically when my my business or the establishment of my business started, I joined up with an accounting firm in Mirabelle to re establish my networks. And then from there, I literally joined the financial wisdom license. That was so that a 2010. And basically was running my own business as a one person in advisor and growing from there. And then the the next stages of what happened there where we moved to our advice, because we grown as a conglomerate of advisors, sharing costs, and then we moved to our advice. The the head advisor, at that time was Steven Hickman, who basically needed to get was right to hiring. So I took over his client base and the journey, the journey from there was 2016 to now and I’ve been on a growth trajectory. So

Andrew Rocks
and just taking a rewind. Yeah, what made you pick find it so So you went to Commonwealth Bank would put fresh out of school or university or

Brad Rogers
fresh out of university or was I actually now apologies, university to Aviva. So Norwich union, I spent 12 months in their finance day where I started the diploma of financial planning and that’s gave me the into the graduate program. So why financial planning, part of it was potentially Dad, Dad was a financial planner in the Westpac bade way back when they were selling three funds, they had the property fund, the Australian share fund and a bond fund. So dad was actually if as a short story, dad was the best Westpac salesman in 1987. He got a little badge and everything, he still talks about that. But that’s that was probably a little bit because we always Dad always instilled share market and everything like that. And when I got to university, I just didn’t like accounting. I was especially I was in a specialist degree accounting and finance. And I just didn’t like the accounting side. Let’s be honest, I wasn’t cut out for that. But I did like the, the finance and the law side of my degree. And financial planning is a really good fit to the finance and law. You get to use all your technical knowledge. And then you get to talk to people and it’s different every day. So that’s what drew me to financial planning,

Andrew Rocks
and is it sort of sounds like your dad being a legend in 1987? Is that before September 1987, or after but we’ll come to that. And you only lost one week in Westpac because they’re all like, oh, you know, your dad won the award. He tells about it all the time. But clearly you had that that battle any gene in your family, it’s good to know what you don’t like and, and accounting and I also updated accounting at university and I make a terrible accountant, which my CFO and my accountant will readily admit in long form. But in relation to the motivation, of the bit of financial advice, so you’ve moved into that practice, that accounting practice, you’re there by your lonesome for a period of time. And how did you? How did you sort of convince the accountants to trust their clients with you when you wouldn’t have been that old when he kicked off?

Brad Rogers
Now thankfully, there was another financial planner, an older financial planner at that time that was looking to transition out so that he’d had he’d done all the hard work with the accountants. So I look, I love accountants, I just couldn’t be one myself, look, they’ve got the very important, then we I believe accountants and financial planners should work together. So that’s the biggest challenge, I think, is convincing accountants that they should be working with financial planners, but I do a lot of work around that. So that’s that, and look, they were more than comfortable with my technical skills. I think that surprised them a little bit, that they have this view that financial planners didn’t have knowledge, or was it weren’t capable. So I think that was the biggest, at my age, when I was there. That was how I that gave me cut through. So I was able to they were able to trust me with my knowledge. So that’s how we developed a working relationship.

Andrew Rocks
I think you’re right, I think the way to an accountants heart is through your brain. And, you know, historically, the stereotype of financial planners was was more sort of sales front and less about technical. And I think that, that impressing upon them that you actually know a little bit about what they’re doing, does go a long way. And so you’ve now you’ve now managed to get your own business, your license through fin waves, which is the which is that that’s for the old people who are listening. And you’ve moved into our is, as you said, you got into more of a conglomerate there was that? Did you merge a few businesses together? Was it always you leading from the front and bringing people along?

Brad Rogers
So prior to 2016, it was effectively, that conglomerate, there was a few advisors and most all of them dropped off effectively, they were older advisors, and they were just joining up to which a lot of people would probably know about who in the financial advice to get volume bonuses, it was all about the volume bonuses, and back, then that’s why they all joined together. They all dropped off as they retired. And every effectively they there’s books, worked into mind at that point in time. I then went and had to effectively recruit advisors to my business. So I’ve been on a steady growth profile since since then I was I was very, very lucky that Emma Arthur, the first advisor that come across said yes, so she’s an amazing advisor in her own right. And it was I went to school with her. So I’ve known her for a long time. And just so happened that she needed a bit more flexibility. That and the other business she was at while looking for a more of a structure a commitment to full time and I said, well, I need an advisor, do you want to come over? And she said, Yes. So that was I was very, very lucky in that sense. And look,

Andrew Rocks
a shout out to Emma, who clearly knows where the skeletons are buried in your back history, knowing you from high school. And I know that she’s also gone on to do a bit of aged care speciality as well as that, that we might talk about a bit more about your practice and in a second, but given the location that you are, which is quite a popular sort of area for business, but also retirees, etc. I’m sure that that is a very useful feather in your cap.

Brad Rogers
Yeah, no, she Emery is a specialist in aged care. And we will talk about that more. But so from there, Emma and I grew our team and got got our admin back office. And we we played around with that because we relied a lot initially on good people as opposed to good process. So it was a learning I was on a learning curve and a steep one. But the as we move through the journey, I became a lot better at learning to give up. I couldn’t control everything. So because I couldn’t control everything. I got good people in my business that I trusted. And from there we were able to build out really good process and everything along those lines that that then led to my contract paraplanner becoming an employee. And that was that’s shout out to us. Rosie who is an amazing? Chef, amazing paraplanner in our own right, and she’s also keeps everyone in this office under control.

Andrew Rocks
When did was there a moment in time where you got that self awareness? Was it was it? Was it born out of out of a business trauma? Or was it just you woke up one day and the sun was rising? over the ocean? Or what? What was it? Right?

Brad Rogers
So So was a combination of probably two things that was a business trauma, because effectively, I was a one advisor practice with a with this massive advisor book, and I’ve gone, I was just doing the work, I was just putting in hours, because that’s what I was always taught to do. You just work and get through it. And, and it was just one of those trigger moments that have gone, this is not gonna be sustainable. And so therefore, I engaged a business coach, so shout out to Phil Volk, to put me through. What was advice 3.0 When he was rolling that program out, and that, that led to you’ve got to get structure, you’ve got to get process. And you’ve actually got to let go. You can’t do everything so that they were the two things that led me to be delegation becoming my friend.

Andrew Rocks
And what’s what’s it was it was it Paul Volk, did you say, uh, Phil, though Volk, again, as I still have a business name, Phil does

Brad Rogers
have a business that he has two business names, because he’s also got a financial planning practice. But

Andrew Rocks
we’ll figure it out and sent put that there. So um, yeah, we’ll give him a quick shout out. But so I’ve got I wanted to change gears a bit. Okay. And, and so you’ve had that cathartic moment, and that a one man band is not necessarily an engine room. And given that this is an engine room podcast, on really interested from that moment onwards, let’s call this you know, it’s it’s from from the the birth of your self awareness that you can’t be the front, middle and back office, and have a sustainable business, a happy life, and actually look those large number of clients in the eye and tell them that you can do anything other than being reactionary, which was the stereotype of the past. So with that in mind, maybe give me a feel now of just an idea of your organizational structure? How many hours do you haven’t your business? Right?

Brad Rogers
I’ve got five hours, I’ve just brought through a py advisor who came out of my who was my office manager or brew it. So that’s my, I’ve got five hours in and, and obviously, yeah, so

Andrew Rocks
and what kind of what kind of clientele does the practice have,

Brad Rogers
we mainly have your we’re in, we’re in a country. So we’re obviously on the coast here. And we’ve got a wide variety of advisors have a wide variety of clients. So therefore, we have your typical mum and dads, and then obviously, but we’ve also got your small business clients and your the farmers that are selling out their dairy farms, which we add the specialist high wealth clients, we’ve also got a nice little market because mainly off the back of having Emery in our business. But we’ve got nearly every aged care client in the district walks through our door. So if you’re passionate about aged care, we every aged care client nearly comes through our door, we can hand on heart say that we’ve got that niche covered. And then we do do insurance obviously we I’ve I’ve come from an insurance background. So I’m, I like to think of the technical side of the insurance rather than the sales process. So I’m really big on the advice and the right cover and making sure clients understand as opposed to just selling, selling some insurance policies. But that’s we’ve got a broad range of policies per se and clients on the book and we we cover off on the your mid to high wealth top clients that want one of us

Andrew Rocks
and given you’ve got five ARs and you’ve got a back office, a great power plant here, you gave a shout out to before how do you arrange the service lines? Are they in pods led by sort of the typical lead advisor or or do you share the clients along the journey particularly because you’ve got some aged care or what how do you how do you arrange the delivery of services to clients?

Brad Rogers
So we’re really big on making sure the right advisory and in front of the right client. So that’s always been our mantra is to make sure the client gets the right advice, which and how we do that is we’ll we’ll regularly do joint appointments with two hrs will all will have an AI walk out of a meeting and Do you’ll need to do the rest of that, because that’s aged care, or that’s, that’s that’s sitting in your speciality or they’re going to fit better into your personality. So I do that regularly because I’m, my client base is probably at capacity. So I’m regularly handing over clients to the other advisors in the, in the office. And

Andrew Rocks
I think that also, you know, this been the engine room podcast here yet again, one of those advisors in transition from being the lead advisor to to spending a lot more time on the business. And would that be a fair comment?

Speaker 2
Right, very much very much so. It’s just without without the engine room. And probably that’s the big piece of my business structure. Now, that’s got to allowing us to do what we need to do, Rocksy,

Andrew Rocks
everything falls yet. And so I’d like to know your definition. Okay. So as we’ve just done the lead in, you’ve mentioned, the type of clients that you’ve got, you’ve got the geographical setting, you’ve got some long term IRAs, you’ve just taken someone through their py year, which is to be congratulated. You’ve arranged people, you’ve got self awareness so that your that even if a client is referred to one advisor, if another advisor has got a better skill set and a better experience, you’re going to do that sort of feels like you’ve got your front office rules, and sort of the way you do things around here down pat. And, you know, how are you looking to build for the future? Which is to your point, the engineering and how do you do it sustainably in a quite a limited talent market? In waterval.

Brad Rogers
And that’s a that’s been that was that was one of our biggest hardships at the very start, was we put it out in the paper, and you might get one or two and there’s no financial planning experience. It’s not like we’re in the city where there’s all these financial planning admins and looking to grow or jump Jampol not happy with. It just didn’t happen. So we went through this stage where we tried a few different people, good people, but just didn’t get financial planning to the to the extent that we then go on, how do we fix this, which then led us to outsourcing. So without an A shout out to VBP. And we partnered with the BFA, because that allowed us to bring people into our business, train them. And we could use them to our process not adapting to a process that sort of that the outsourcing has, there’s two types of outsourcing. As I see it, there’s one that’s got their process, and you tap into it. And then you take their process, and you did get a delivery, or what the way I see VP and was they became your team member, they’re your resource, you train them with the assistance of a VP, they train them, they have their own manager, but effectively, you have your own manager in house. And that’s how we really got cut through without outsourcing. And then from there, we grew the team from one to seven effectively.

Andrew Rocks
And so what was the effect of of just being able to get that leverage in in a quasi rural regional area? You know, you you’re a quasi regional, you’re not full regional. But you’re definitely not not CD, as you said, just getting that ability for your advisors to have support. What has that allowed what how has that changed that their output and their,

Brad Rogers
I suppose focus. So I put it to that gave us the foundation of our business. So we got the foundations, right, which then gave us the growth projector, which allowed knowing that we could see clients and knowing that the advisor could spend time with clients, and not do admin, not through applications not do to the point now that I’ve got all my advisors literally seeing a client writing a file, though, and the back office handles everything else.

Andrew Rocks
And how do you manage to maintain a culture? Albeit you are part of the Victorian cohort that got a crash course in working remotely? During COVID? But how do you how do you now perpetuate a culture of of togetherness and the wealth your way from effectively different offices and down the Microsoft Teams a zoom lens,

Brad Rogers
so we have structured meetings and would be gone. So we have a structured advisory meeting. We have a structured whole team meeting. And it’s all about bringing the team together that is pictured here on a screen doesn’t mean it can’t be. And not every one of those meetings is a work meeting, we’ll have a just a chat meeting where we get to talk to the VBP guys and know what they’re up to. And, and they’ve effectively been part of a team just because we’re not side by side in the office, they’re still part of the team. And I know that they’re having little within their own admin groups. They’re having team huddles in there. Literally, we’ve got team chats going around constantly, which I have to try and work out how to turn off because I just on a display all all the all we’re talking about, were some of the lovely Filipino language, which is, and some of the language I probably shouldn’t have learned. But that’s, that’s just part of having team members. And just because they’re not in the office. That is, that’s irrelevant to our culture, we’re still they’re still very much a part of it to the point that we brought our first, our first VP who name is Cha. She’s been with us for over five years now. And she’s now doing she now in our office. So she’s come to Australia for a month just to be part of to be to be part of the team. So that was really exciting.

Andrew Rocks
So quick timeout, I’m recording this. In the beginning of June, it might go out in July. How does a balmy eight degrees in vulnerable sort of sit with with his team members? Ah, she’s

Brad Rogers
struggling beater. That it’s it’s a little bit cold, but she’s got a very, very warm snow jacket. And she is going to go up to Queensland where there is some sunshine apparently that’s so now she’s she’s going she’s

Andrew Rocks
awesome, awesome. Mo, just jumping into sort of some of the other tools that you have you mentioned before that you’re licensed through our AI advice, which, which comes with it the the associated technology on x plan and whatnot. But is there any other technology that you utilize in your business?

Brad Rogers
Yeah, so to our advice, have built a tool or bought a tool, which was called The Wealth Report. And they’ve adapted that and use that effectively, it’s a front end, front end client projected tool doesn’t really matter what tool you use, but I can tell you that their projection projection tool, change the way we have client conversations within our office. So when we brought that into the office, it allowed advisors and all the advisors have said the same thing, you have different conversations. And that allows for what I believe to be better advice. So whether it be wealth projector, or some other tool that shows projections, and I’ll I’m not wedded to any particular technology, I’m big on using the best technology at that time, because technology changes. So that’s part of my mantra, and I’ll, I’ll use what I believe is best for my business at that time. And then if I need to change it, then I will

Andrew Rocks
look I’m I’m a big fan of the wolf report, I started actually using that in 2014, long, many, many years before, it was purchased by by IWF. And, and really because I got weary of, of of being you know, we had quite sort of robust and emotional and passionate meetings of clients. And then that was backed up with pretty, pretty dull and repetitive documentation that you gave them. So that was our main premise. So I think it’s, it’s good, but you’re also right, these things do change. And, and it feels like every every other month, there’s a new piece of technology, which which either is or claiming to sort of solve that, that that goals based advice and that client centric one, so I think we’re in good hands in financial services. Was there any other piece of technology? You mentioned you don’t you’re a pure player financial planning business? Do you for instance, do you use any sort of self managed Superfund technology on

Brad Rogers
so we have partnered with intello for our self managed Superfund space. So they effectively allow us to plug into their IoT system and upload all documents and allow our clients that need that want that higher level of self managed super fund cut through to log into their system. So we have done that. We not a big self managed super fund, a financial planning business, we’ve got the skill set within the advisor within a couple of our advisors to do that. But we’ve we’ve definitely partner with someone who’s specializes in that more so where we need to,

Andrew Rocks
and what about you mentioned you did some life insurance? Um, I think we wouldn’t. It wouldn’t, wouldn’t be would be remiss of me not to ask how you manage to do that and apply Affordable why doing life insurance in 2023? is completely different to when you first started, for various reasons. Is there any, is there any kind of product providers who who lean into you the most from a service perspective for? Or is there any thing that you think that they can do as a cohort to improve and, and increase engagement on the advisor market,

Brad Rogers
I’ve had lots of conversations with in and around this, that one of the one of the components is the compliance overlay that sits on insurance advice now that if you just, you’re going to need advisors with the compliance and the technical skills to give advice, that’s how you can do it profitably. Because if you, if you’re advising knows how to do it, and we give them the structure, so we give them, we give them a really easy, simple structure in our business, this is how you do insurance. And this is how you can do it profitably. So it’s officially a five step process in our business. And we don’t want to talk too much about advice is this about the engine or about the process plugged into our engine room, and they pick it up. So therefore, the advisors not doing a lot of grunt work. And that’s how we can get profit in insurance, because obviously, commissions have come down. But because the advisor knows the process, and that then feeds into the to the admin team, that’s how we can get insurance advice out profitably.

Andrew Rocks
And what about investment then do you do you operate an SMA? Or an MDA? Or? Or do you have particular platforms that you’re biased towards,

Brad Rogers
on very much bias to SMEs or manage accounts, and I saw the writing on the wall to have a to have profitable and growth orientated business, you can’t be running paper models or a different model for every single client, because there’s, it just doesn’t fit into a process. So the big advantage that I see in SMA managed accounts, even even multi managers, because they’re effectively the same thing is that the investment risk is taken away from your business. So that’s a tweak. Plus, it also gives standardized process for all your back office admin, because they know that it’s a managed account. I will that’s easy. We know when they, when they’re doing implementation, it takes away implementation risk. So the admin around and then the growth that comes with looking at your business and going, we use a managed account, or we use an SMA, which gives us growth structure, and the clients love it. The clients actually, when you start speaking to the clients about managed accounts and how they move in transition, and and we’ll adjust to them, they said, Oh, we thought that’s what you were always doing. So

Andrew Rocks
that you had to do so much work to make it look like you weren’t doing as much work.

Brad Rogers
That’s exactly right. And it cut and it means that your means that the advice and the review is focused on the goals and objectives and not having to do an ROI and not having to do a switch. And it cuts out all the all the extra work and all the extra processing and typing in implementation that goes with having to do it the old way.

Andrew Rocks
And is there is there any who do you partner with who does the platform and so

Brad Rogers
we’ve obviously partnered with IWF model portfolios, but Matt Olsen’s models have absolutely smashed it out of the park. So shout out to Matt, but effectively, that that plugs into multiple platforms. So we actually had a big, big partnership with Colonial First State being no rap, it’s a massive trust and we know that but the the model, the MDR is actually on colonial first site. And for our larger clients or the clients that need a more sophisticated type portfolio we use hub 24 Because the MDA is on hub 24 So we’ve we try and then to that other point if the clients existing portfolio needs to stay we’ll

Andrew Rocks
we’ll move on that’s good because that gives you that gives you that sort of that flexibility and you know you’ve given me a bit of an idea of of the details of your practice and and you know you’re self professed, you’ve come through the traditional route it doesn’t get more traditional than your dad was aplenty you started at CBI, you worked in buddy Canberra. I think you’re it’s almost a satire that you’ve done that bit. What I would love to know now is you’ve grown as you as you mentioned quite rapidly in a in a regional area. I would like to know why people join you outside of going to high school with you because you’ll run out of those pretty soon. Why people stay and why are they growing? You know what, what’s your call Trouble about bright.

Brad Rogers
That’s a really good lead in there, obviously. And probably I’ll talk to Steve and Steve green, and he’s recently joined our practice. He’s in Portland. So we now have an office in Portland. But he was the traditional a&p advisor who was licensed to a&p. And then he ended up FSP. But he was a two advisor, practice fully a&p. And I got to know that he’s been around,

Andrew Rocks
he’s been, he’s been going since 1992, his profile says,

Brad Rogers
he has so he’s, he’s, he’s daddy still hot. So but what what has happened is Steve’s is great is a great planner, but he just needed advisor and structure around him. So he was sort of just he was one of these advisors that probably and Steve won’t mind me saying this, he got a little bit disenchanted with advice. And he was at when we started chatting, it was all about him retiring, and getting getting out of the network and getting out of advice. And within 12 months, probably it took about four or five, to be honest. We put we put our process around him, we we started coming to advisor meetings, we started having joined advise advisor appointments, we bounce ideas off each other and he’s he’s he’s fully now invested in loves, loves the process loves the fact that he all he has to do is see the client, give it to our back office. And he he said he’s, uh, he’s the biggest problem is just keeping him under control or, or he’ll see see too many clients and to the point that we have to bring on more people to just accommodate, but that plugs into our process. So it’s actually okay,

Andrew Rocks
that your your engine room has effectively, you know, given the backdrop of the statistics of so many advisors leaving and we’ve guest is a number I was listening to cordatus number, the other I think we’re at 15,000 advisors, Steve had a good chance of being one of those statistics of just just just leaving, but by actually creating that environment. And, and having having the I suppose the flexibility of having him in his home town as well. You’ve not only it’s like basketball, you’ve defended the basket, but you’ve already you’ve then you’ve then attacked and got a few points. So well done. And it’s, you know, the whole point of promoting the business of the business is that there are many advisors that that that I think have been maligned. A bit older advisors. And I think that if you do wrap a support network around them, you’re going to get nuggets of gold everywhere you look with these people, would you agree with that? Very much.

Brad Rogers
So I look, sometimes it’s just about having conversations in and reengaging and reigniting that passion, that was financial advice, there’s, yes, it’s changed a little bit, but that the advice is still talking to a client finding out what they want, and giving them a solution. And then getting the client to trust you, you don’t lose that ability. I don’t believe it’s just how do we reengage? How do we reinvigorate and on my whole ethos, when I started this build process was, I want good people, and I want them to be happy and have fun at work. So my staff and my biggest asset, and we spend a lot of time working out what they need, what, what they want, and within business structure, of course and process, but they, the staff are my most important people.

Andrew Rocks
And I was just gonna say, when you say you want to get good people? Do you have a structured recruitment process to get good people or you just figure your good personnel hanging out with you? What’s what’s the, what’s the well sure way of bringing people into the business,

Brad Rogers
the big, the first part is having a chat, getting to know whether we’re going to be it’s a bit like bringing on a new client, this is how I see it, we get to know each other, we would have started having conversations and then then it is structured in that we have there’ll be a few interviews and there’ll be we also like to do a DISC profile or just to get to know how they they walked her how they will fit into outside because obviously

Andrew Rocks
given given Steve came in and as a as a as a frontline AR in relation to the DISC profile. And a lot of people listening would have done one of those and they create what what are you looking for in particular? And is it the normal stereotype or is it something else?

Brad Rogers
I’m not looking for anything particularly on that disc profile? What I want to know is what is the DISC profile so that I then know how that would then fit into my team And then also allow my team to adjust in and understand that this person is going to prefer an email this person is going to prefer to, and this person is not going to give me all the information because they operate over here. So you’re going to have to remind them so it’s all about learning and adjusting so that we get the right outcome. So probably

Andrew Rocks
also give you early doors insights into the type of clients that work for these for these advisors as well. So no well played. And the second one is you like people with a good people having happy and fun time at work? How do you reward your team and how do you have fun what’s what’s what’s fun and reward look like it will show up. So we

Brad Rogers
would be gone this but um, there’s there’s a couple of set reward stuff that we always do every year in it. And one is end of financial year, and one is the Christmas party, and they’re well renowned. But we’ll also two ad hoc, we very much enjoy birthdays. So birthdays are very well celebrated in our office. And that that is that becomes morning tea. And that is a celebration itself it and good work where we where we can see that people have had a lot of wear, our load has been very, very high will be rewarded with a, especially for the ladies, they like that we’ve got a lovely deep, deep blue shout out to a bloke a wonderful Deep Blue spa, we’ll send them down there for a relaxing afternoon and give them the half a day off just to go yet we really do. And we can see that you’ve worked hard. Here’s a bright so we do that as well, every now and then that’s that’s that that’s ad hoc, depending on workload, but we very much do that.

Andrew Rocks
And so when you’re when you’re sitting down and doing your strategy, and you’ve got your engine room involved, you’ve got your customer service people your power planning, you’ve got your global team onshore offshore, do you do you set these down on quarters? Or six monthly? And? And is there like a team goal that you set? And? Or how do you how do you convey that the overall corporate direction as the leader and of the business.

Brad Rogers
So that’s been a recent shift in our business to make sure that we keep continued growth. But it is now that we have now set down with all the team and we’re doing it six monthly and just aligning to, to what our effectively EBIT, we’ve told him what our end goal on EBIT is not the actual total number, because I don’t want a total number on what profitable business and growing so they’re fully aware and understand some of the financials within our business. And obviously, they’re sat down every six months with a formal process with my business manager to check in on what their growth looks like, what their performance looks like, what was their direction, so that we’re all growing as a team, I don’t want some people just want to do their job and be be whatever, but we’re very much if they want to grow and they want to become advisors, as proven, with Kate bringing K through the py, or they wanted to come paraplanners They want to become office managers that there is a structured process. And we do that. So

Andrew Rocks
from my my personal history and my observed history, in talking to a lot of planners, getting that accountability from across all parts of the business with people and making them feel like that, if they’ve personally achieved they’ve moved the dial in the business is critical. Is that what you mean by sitting down every six months? There is and that’s with everyone that’s with you, your back office, your engine room, the whole thing? And and do you feel that since you’ve been doing that, that, that people who potentially are behind the scenes feel a bit more rewarded, give very much so

Brad Rogers
and part of that was to also probably transition. And we’re in the process of establishing an ESOP. So that that rewards everyone who wants to and who we give access to will then have ownership in the business. So that was part of it, it was a transition to then can sustain growth and Catboy.

Andrew Rocks
So I’ve seen a lot of businesses and the fact that you’re you’ve got rhythm cadence, you’re getting the right people doing the right things. You’re disclosing financials creating accountability, and now you’re offering up a share in the in the game is the cornerstone for for growing a business and a bit later, I’m going to talk about your vision for the future and your growth plans. But from what you’ve mentioned there you are looking at doing that. I just had another question. Financial Planning is a very rewarding business and we associate a lot with making people money but does do you order well sure have a charitable program or a giving kind of program. If so, how did how does it happen and How do your team members get sort of invested in that,

Brad Rogers
I’ve always been big on giving back to the community, I’ve got two specific charities that I probably have a focus on. One is, what is a local charity, it’s Peters project. And they through, they raise money to build a cancer center. So they’ve got a world class with a world class Cancer Center for Cancer Support here in Waterville, so that the cancer, people who have cancer didn’t have to go to Chilango or Melbourne so. So I give them free advice that a charity is were on leaps and bounds, they raised more money than they needed to build a multimillion dollar building. So that that’s close to my heart. And that also feeds into pro bono work with care to counsel. But the other charity that’s pretty close to my heart is Ms. So obviously, MS is a stray award, but where there is a local warrantable ms support group and on very much help them out. Passionate about that,

Andrew Rocks
and what why is there any was there any sort of triggers as to why you pick those charities, my wife

Brad Rogers
has MS. So there’s a background story there. But she that’s that’s why I’m very, very passionate about that one. So, and she’s obviously there to support other people in the town. But she went through that she was supported. And now she’s one of the ones giving the support. But the part of that is making sure that we I just say that that’s as financial planners, we’re very lucky. So where we can give back? And that’s probably something we all should do as financial planners, and I think we do we problem is we just don’t know. And here’s a bit,

Andrew Rocks
I think you’re I think you’re completely correct. The giving that I suppose the the perception of financial planners is not the reality, the perception is, you know, the Wall Street Style person, the reality is local people, working in communities, helping families solve their financial problems, giving back, exactly, uh, you’ve done, you’ve just mentioned two things that are that you’re very, very local and, and obviously, a heartfelt sort of story in relation to your own family and your wife in particular. So, you know, thank you, thank you very much for sharing and, and I think that people who are making a choice as to where they want to spend the majority of their week, which is also called employment, are drawn towards people with purpose, compassion, and empathy, as well as their business knowledge. So it’s clear that you’re really focusing on that Southwest, Victoria. Now, in saying that, you’ve grown your business from x to y. So the growth story, when did it start? Like when did it accelerate? In reality? And and that’s the first part of the question. And what’s your vision? What’s your vision for welchol? And also, what’s your vision for? As I pointed out, the engine rooms are already I know, you’ve got to, you’ve got someone involved in in operations in practice, but where do you see the composition of financial services firms in the future.

Brad Rogers
So the growth profile started and choose growth profile started in 2016. And that probably was when the transition arrangement with Steve Hickman and we ended up with what we did. And that was a rough base of I think it was around about 800,000. And then we’ve managed to grow that to nearly two and a half turnover. So that’s been the growth profile since 2016. It’s been on an upward trend, and it’s continuing. We’ve got the processes now, back office. So as we get more clients, or we get another advisor, we just can plug more people into that engine room, or back office admin so that we’ve got our processes so that they are all just tap in and it continues on its merry way as we need to. So and that may be offshore, and it may be onshore depending on what the needs of the business are at that time. But they all we all tack into the same process. So that’s that’s really important.

Andrew Rocks
Do you have an opinion? So you mentioned you, you’ve you’ve now moved the I suppose the awareness towards an EBIT, da percentage, not not number, you are a growth business. So there’s probably some reinvestment into the now for build the capacity cap. But what would you say would be an aspirational EBIT number once you do get to a maturity state, as far as percentage, sorry, percentage

Brad Rogers
percentage, so I want it above 35. So and I was obviously it’s sitting, not quite there yet, but it’s it’s getting closer. So Where, and as an end if we can have it at 35 and continue to grow the obviously the revenue and keep the expenses in law and then obviously, then we end up with a with an amazing business.

Andrew Rocks
And also, no point having an ESOP. If you’re doing an ESOP into a business, that doesn’t make any money. That’s just getting a raise.

Brad Rogers
Yeah, that’s capital raising, as opposed to that, so. So obviously, that’s where that’s where the business is going. And look, we’re looking to get good people who are on the same journey, people who want to plug in anyone, anyone who wants to see change, or Cambodia or wants to be in the Southwest, and want to reach out more than happy to have a chat.

Andrew Rocks
So and also, your offices in wonderful, but you’ve got a one in Portland, your take on where the future team members in your area are operating from it is flexible, or is it or have you got a particular vision on the year very

Brad Rogers
much so because of the changes that we that what we will go loved in injuries or not? We got locked down. So my power planer is actually in Queensland. So my advisors, we’ve got zoom, we’ve got teams, where they can be anywhere they like, and fully flexible in the sense as provided, they’re saying they call us in doing their job, then they can tap in, they could be overseas, and just

Andrew Rocks
just on top of thought bubble, just reiterating that, but would also indicate that you’ve got no problems having clients in Melbourne as it as or julong, as, as you’ve intimated. So I think your pitch just then was if you’re an advisor in the area, and you like the idea of the entering, but also, if your advice, he just likes to come down and smell the sweet. See, Eric, you’re open to those kinds of approaches. Would that be fair? Right? Very much. So, sir. And what about growing, you know, organically through through a merger or acquisition is that ever, you’ve yet to do that, but is that

Brad Rogers
the actual last one was a merger with So Steve, Steve came in as a merger. So that was a merger of the practice. So we, we could do it that way as well. And it really just depends, it does depend on the people and, and what’s going to work, because I’m big on win win. So if it’s not gonna fit, then that’s okay. But where we’re aligned, we can work out the best way. And if that’s an acquisition, if that’s a merger, then then that will be a discussion point. And we’ll, we’ll come up with a what’s best for everyone. And that’s, that’s how you succeed in business. Because that’s my view in that if you’re, if you’re making things better for everyone, then you get a better result. And then people buy in, and the, the end, the end result is the clients are better off, because you’ve got happy staff, you’ve got a good result for the client. So that’s how I that’s how I have tried to do everything. While I’ve been on this projector,

Andrew Rocks
and I think you’ve just very clearly articulated the whole business premise for Ensembl. You know, it started with the creating the positive evolution that financial advisors or advice. It’s nailing the brief of advisors and what what what Ensembl wants to promote now is that that needs a home for everyone in the advice ecosystem, whether you be a power planner, or financial, funny administration, person, it’s still good to have peers. And it’s still good to ask questions, and get answers from people who are in going through the same things and they might be in Darwin or, or Perth or Warnell. But it gives that that real real community spirit and, and without, without creating great environments. We’d be back at the beginning of this podcast with you servicing one, you’ve been one person and not really being able to service people too well, to where you are now where you proudly mentioned that you kind of dominate the aged care sort of market, which also is a really big community service, because for every person going into aged care, there’s there’s worried children, adult children who may or may not be under financial stress, they don’t know what to do. There’s estate planning, professional estate planning requirements, as well. So so it really has a positive sort of flow on if you manage to build a good quality company. And do you have any sort of sort of visions for the future of financial planning so to speak,

Brad Rogers
I think the future of financial planning is going to be very dependent on legislative changes probably. But my the future of financial advice in welcher Murray’s making is we’ve been very big on what the clients need client, making the clients better. So we’ve very much streamline our process and using technology to bring the clients along, so we’re so in that sense, the future is probably digitally enhanced by the adviser and client relationship to give the client better outcomes. That’s probably where I see advice. What what that ends up being will depend on legislation and what we’re allowed to do. But it’s very much open to the to the business to determine how they best deliver advice to the client.

Andrew Rocks
I think your passion and your down to earth nature is part of the reason why well shore is succeeding i i Also note that your turnover of people in your businesses is very low. So once once people do, do get into your environment, they do stay and and look I’ve really enjoyed the engineering podcast. So I also enjoy our social time you can be quite a fun person to hang around. And if anyone would like any more information, it will all be in the attached links. And without any further ado, thank you very much for being on the engine room. Brad. Have a great day. Cheers, mate.

Brad Rogers
Thanks, Rocksy. Really appreciated the time and the chat. Hopefully people got something out of that.

Andrew Rocks
Cheers. Take care.