Engine Room Podcast #7 – Aimee Lucas – Transcript

Andrew Rocks
Hi, my name is Andrew Rocks and welcome to another edition of the Engine Room Podcast. Today I’m got the pleasure of interviewing Aimee Lucas, who is the practice manager at Burke Britton, one of Victorian powerhouse practices. So without any further ado, good morning, Aimee. How are you?

Aimee Lucas
Morning, Andrew. Great, thank you.

Andrew Rocks
And beforehand, this is your first ever podcast. So it’s going to be quite embarrassing for people who’ve been on many of these when, when when you can pull the ice this one so I’m just sort of, it’s probably in your tires up early. But, but welcome. And like every podcast, it be good to get to know sort of who you are, and what your journey has been to get you into a position where you can say, well, I’m running this practice, I am the practice manager of a well established business. So over to you.

Aimee Lucas
Awesome, thank you. Quite a simple story i i feel like I’ve had a long while journey. So I was a small town country girl born and bred back in Portland about three hours down the coast. So made the decision at about 19 years old to make the big move up to Geelong seems like quite a big move at the time. But looking back, it probably wasn’t as dramatic as what I thought it was mutual, and started a three year role at Laurier Secondary College so completely outside of financial planning, working at a Secondary College working in the office and administration, and then eventually found my way to Burke Britton almost 12 years ago. So entered the financial planning industry as a receptionist had absolutely no idea what was going on out the back, I just sat in reception, greeted clients made coffees handed files to the right people. And obviously, sort of, you know, just threw myself right into the roll 12 years ago with the practice.

Andrew Rocks
And can I ask you and then really interesting from this particular sort of way in which people understand the business, it’s fair to say at reception that you do you understand what clients think of you, and what what suppliers think of you and, and early days, what what was the sort of feeling that you felt that the clients had towards your practice? And I imagine, part of your answer is why you stayed?

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, no, I could tell the clients really, they valued us they valued the planners out the back, they valued the relationships they had with the staff. A lot of the staff had been here for many, many years. So they would almost greet each other like family, you know, coming into reception and hugs and kisses and, and being warm welcomes. So just seeing that happen. Even if it was for a brief few minutes, as people were entering or exiting the building it it really encouraged me, hey, something pretty good is probably happening here that I might want to hang around for.

Andrew Rocks
And when you were sitting sort of early days, where you kind of figuring out and some people like this sort of ways that things could be done better in the office, probably not

Aimee Lucas
so much. So I actually stayed on reception for just six months, so is a bit of a fresh, fresh entry into into the business. After that I moved into doing jays, so one of the owners of the business and financial planners, I moved into his personal assistant role. So quite a newbie, just from out the front, after six months straight out the back, getting into the fire was getting into what financial planning actually was about.

Andrew Rocks
And what is it about.

Aimee Lucas
I’m still trying to point that out Andrew later, 12 years later, I’m still my head’s still spinning. But um, you know, it was a big learning curve coming from no background, three years working at administration somewhere else. And then and then working in quite a fast paced industry with a lot of tick boxes. So it was a very steep learning curve.

Andrew Rocks
And 12 years ago, you would have I mean, the majority of time that you’ve been involved in the business case coincided with the future of financial advice legislation so or you’ve known as change, so and then where did you go from there? So you were working, sort of in the financial planning administration assisting with clients, what were the next steps for you in the business?

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, so I spent about five years four or five years doing Jays personal assistant role. And back then it really was personal assistant everything from picking up the washing to preparing the files, everything in between. At that stage I after that four or five years, I had a great opportunity to step into the practice manager role. I was quite nervous given I didn’t have the education or the experience and background in financial planning, obviously had a few years under my belt at that stage. So I had a fair idea of what the business would need in a practice manager. But I decided to grab it with both hands and run with it at that point. I just didn’t want to look back and regret saying no for that opportunity. So I just took it.

Andrew Rocks
Well, having an experience running a lady’s college and pushing around sort of teenage children’s probably gives you a reasonable basis. of running financial planners. Now in saying that, what what what sort of lessons or that have you’ve learned in the last five or six years that have really molded the way in which you conduct yourself or and also the way in which you’re running the business?

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, a lot of lessons I think about myself, I’ve probably learned that I’m not naturally a leader, it’s something I’ve had to really work on. So I’ve done a few courses, a few seminars, a few things outside of work that have really helped shape me. Not naturally being in management or management role, I’ve sort of had to learn on my feet as I’ve gone through, through the role and through the business. But I’ve really enjoyed it, I enjoy a challenge. I enjoy working hard, I enjoy people and working with people and helping them achieve what their goals are. So I think the lessons are probably say yes to a lot of things. So I tried to say yes, even if it’s out of my comfort zone, say yes, go with it, embrace it, experience it. And, and try not to be so hard on yourself, I think I’ve really, really learned that, you know, it’s not the end of the world, if something doesn’t work out. You can pivot, you can change, change your pathway. And you just got to keep working on it.

Andrew Rocks
And you mentioned you did some you’ve done some courses that have helped you, what were the main types of ones that you’ve done just for other people who are embarking on this? And did you do that in person or online? What was the ones that that you can remember, were successful, you don’t have to remember the names, but just the the topics.

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, interestingly, they haven’t been management courses, per se, and they haven’t been financial planning based. So one that I completed in Melbourne, pre COVID, in person was called landmark. So that focused a lot on not spinning stories in your head pretty much and not not diving into some spiral of what might happen or has happened. So that was that was really good. It was, like I said, it wasn’t management based, it was more personal based and personal growth. So I did that one. And at the moment, I actually still do weekly at the moment Echelon front, which is around Extreme Ownership. So it’s about leadership, ownership, you know, taking taking control of your own decisions, and helping those around, you become leaders as well. So I’ve really focused on personal growth more than anything, you know, certificate based or financial planning based, it’s always been on my radar to do something like that. But for myself, in my role, I’ve really liked the growth side of things more than ticking a box for some sort of compliance, or, or knowledge.

Andrew Rocks
And what we might do is we might just just detach a few of those links, we’re gonna touch this podcast, Echelon front, I think you mentioned was, was was was one of the ones that you’re actually still involved in. So I think you’re right. Be the fact that the engine room focuses on practice managers is the skills and the disposition to run the operations of a business quite often is not natural, that natural, outgoing sort of extrovert nature that quite a lot of financial planners exhibit, whether they are or they are not, that’s for them in the listeners to actually decide, but they quite often have to do that. Because generally, in a meeting, the main role of of a planner in a meeting is to get people to do things, they know they should in a timeframe that otherwise wouldn’t. So you know, there’s probably a bit of bravado there. And, and, and acknowledging that that was one of your, your points where you needed to develop is the key to success. So now after So you moved three hours? So Portland, three hours south of Atlanta, is that right? It is. It was a three hour south of July, on water is it,

Aimee Lucas
you just keep driving? A lot of people no warrantable keep driving an hour, and you’ll get Portland. So it’s quite small town, not a lot of job opportunities. Like I said, moving to July was was big. I think we have one set of traffic lights in Portland at the time when I left. So big move for a small girl.

Andrew Rocks
Perfect, perfect. Don’t too long since you’ve settled in 12 years. Now let’s talk about this business that you’ve found yourself initially starting in and now now being quite operational in Britton. So just give us a bit of an idea of the scale. How many advisors do you have? What is your back office look like? Maybe just give me a bit of an idea, please.

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, sure. So we’ve got about a team of 12. Most of us are based in julong. And four of those 12 are API’s. So those API’s have been with us 10 plus years, the four of them and two of them being actually the the owners of the business. So Peter Burke and Jay Burke. Besides that, we have some administrators. We have a receptionist and we actually have one ongoing full time Power Plan and now as well

Andrew Rocks
and I’m when I look at Adrian Jaya father and son is that right?

Aimee Lucas
Yes. Interesting, interesting Judo combination with family but works well.

Andrew Rocks
Okay. And, and having you involved because I’ve looked at your website and you’re good even footing on the front row there, so to speak, do you find yourself? How do you how do you play with the fathers and the Son? As far as sort of working with both of them? I’m really curious.

Aimee Lucas
Ah, no, we we do well at theater and Jada have quite a balance. So it’s, it’s quite good, I tried to be the middle voice of reason for the two of them. Being father and son, and me having waited 12 years, we have quite an honest, open relationship. So you know, you’re, you’re not trying to not tread on toes with anyone, which is really good. You can you can give your opinion. And you can have an opinion come back at you and, and not be flustered or upset about it. You know, it really is just factual at the end of the day, so I think it works well.

Andrew Rocks
Oh, absolutely. And I think having that circuit breaker is probably quite smart. Now with four advisors, and you’ve got a team of eight own operations. They’re not all doing the same role. So what how do you break them down? Do you operate in a pod system? So one AR, or? Or is it a collective, maybe give us a feel for that, please?

Aimee Lucas
We’ve tried to figure things over the years, Andrew, we’ve tried the PA role. Over the years for each plant, Each plant has a PA, we’ve tried pod systems, silos, all sorts of things. But I think what we’ve really come back to as a business still is having one main person that takes care of that client, whether it that client belongs to J Peter, Ben Delta, having that client know who they contact has really worked best for us. So when they call, they asked for that support staff member, and they develop that relationship with that support staff member as well. Relationships obviously, play a really huge key part of the business. So it is almost like silos, the plan is know who to go to in the staff for each client. And that works really well.

Andrew Rocks
And the type of business that you’re in julong and julong, is, you know, parts of it very urban, passive, it’s very sort of industrial and, and the you are close to agriculture as well. So one of the type of clients that Burke Britton has, and and what’s their, I suppose their target market.

Aimee Lucas
It’s something that we’ve worked really hard on over the last few years. So we did a lot of work with PwC, and our cost to serve our ideal clients. Each planner probably would have a different opinion or way they express their ideal client. But for us, we will clients that want to engage. So that probably sounds really broad. But we have clients all the way from 1819 years old, up to 8090 years old, we have a variety of advice we provide. But for us, it’s more about the client wanting and appreciating and enjoying the relationship and advice received from the business. So we have clients that come in, and they they’re, they’re not so great at returning paperwork or booking appointments. And for us, it’s just at the end of the day, not really an ideal client, because it’s very hard to coordinate a relationship with someone who’s not actively involved. So for us, I mean, obviously, we have an ideal client in terms of funds under management advice, or what to provide. Each of our planners have a nice niche area of advice I like providing. So we have Ben who really enjoys the farming and self managed Superfund aspect. And then we have delta who really enjoys the younger clients who are starting families, Peter really pivots towards dva, Centrelink those sorts of types of advice. So the players definitely have their preferences on the enjoyment in which advice areas they give. However, at the end of the day, if that client is participating in the process, that that’s the best kind of client for us.

Andrew Rocks
Yeah. Look, you mentioned the word engagement and participation. I think, you know, 1015 years ago, financial planners would put up with a client who was unresponsive or potentially, you felt like you had to babysit them. But, you know, anecdotally, they always made bad clients. Because when when things are good, it’s they’re the ones that made it good. And when things are bad, it’s you. So I think so what’s your definition of engagement? So you’re taking on a new client? And you’ve by the way, you’ve given us quite a broad church there as far as what Peter, Ben and delta and J do. How do you get a gut feel as if they are going to be engaged and and do you charge Do you run through so when you take on a client, is it quite a rigorous process upfront to get to get a feel for that?

Aimee Lucas
We do. We’ve learned a little bit in the past couple of years, almost a filtering process. So when the clients do come in, they do have a filtering phone call where they’ll speak with someone and we’ll sort of gauge where they’re at why they’ve contacted us what they’re looking for. We have that filtering process in place. past that point. If they’re happy to proceed, we do offer a first appointment, which we do charge for now. So that PwC, EPS really taught us to value our time and almost filter that client by charging for the first appointment to see if they’re interested in proceeding as a client long term.

Andrew Rocks
And you weren’t surprised when when when when you first brought that in? What was the what was the reaction for when the advisors first got confirmation that people were willing to pay for their time?

Aimee Lucas
It was a very interesting conversation within the staff. So I personally said we cannot charge for the first appointment, we will have no one come in, everyone will say no, it’s going to you know, it’s going to take us backwards in the business, it did not do that at all.

Andrew Rocks
Sometimes, it’s good to lose.

Aimee Lucas
It’s enough to be wrong. In this instance, I was glad I was wrong, because it really has not slowed down our growth or our new appointments at all. If anything, it’s really solidified the clients that do come in proceeding and wanting to proceed. So it’s actually worked really well for our business,

Andrew Rocks
and what’s the range of payments?

Aimee Lucas
So we for our ongoing clients,

Andrew Rocks
just just just to be up for the first meeting. That’s all. Yeah, we

Aimee Lucas
just charge an hourly hourly rate for the first appointment. So we basically charging for the planet’s time perfect, but

Andrew Rocks
which is, which is what a profession does. So well done. And you’ve got I’ve just had a look at the numbers, you got one paraplanner, sort of looking after your entire client base. Shout out, what’s your PowerPoint, his name?

Aimee Lucas
Is that her name is Chris. She’s actually the only one that’s based in Melbourne. So outside of our office, right?

Andrew Rocks
And how does Chris Gaines role work,

Aimee Lucas
and now she does a great job. So Chris joined us about two years ago, paraplanning for the business is something that has been a constant push and pull struggle in terms of numbers, compliance costs, staffing. So about two years ago, Chris joined us is actually a coordinator of our power planning. So Chris joined, and she was more pushing the files between contract paraplanners, you know, working with the planners on things I needed to update or change working on templates. However, about six to eight months ago, Chris wanted to move into full time power planning, that was her original background. So we said let’s do it, let’s, let’s put you in power planning. So we do contract out the remainder of our plans that Chris can’t get through every week. But it’s working really well to have an in house paraplanner. And it’s worked fantastically for the team,

Andrew Rocks
I get to see a lot of practices in my various roles and unequivocally the ones that seem to have the least problems and the most happiness, if that is possible in paraplanning, or advice delivery, people would have got an in house point a person point of escalation. They might have a contractor, either Australian or overseas. And what that person in in the office does is that not only do the work, but they also do a quality assurance on the rest of it as well. So it seems to be the way in which it works. But they are they are a scarce breed paraplanning. And it’s because I suppose it’s a tough gig. It’s a tough gig. And the types of plans you do anything unusual in your plans. You mentioned, Ben does agri in water self managed Superfund. So is it particular types of complexities that you do that quite stimulating?

Aimee Lucas
Somebody super funds is probably one of our main powerhouse drivers for advice. So almost almost a quarter of our client advice documents are self managed super funds. So that’s quite a heavy area for us. We do a lot of insurance, particularly for new clients coming on board, just making sure they are where they need to be with their insurance. But they’re the two contractors that we focus on passing plans out to they’ve been with us over 10 years as well. So back in Brooklyn, had been contracting for 10 years.

Andrew Rocks
So let’s give them a shout out what what’s the what’s the name of the firm.

Aimee Lucas
So they’re just at home. paraplanners. Okay, just just working solely. So their focus is really on getting plans turned around and back to us on time. They know the little quirks of the plan is like they know the business compliance and what we need. So it’s working fantastically with them on board as well. And 10 years the relationships there.

Andrew Rocks
But look, I think, you know, I hear 12 years from yourself 10 years here, there’s a bit of tenure and later on, we’re going to talk about people and culture and I’m I’m that’s probably going to tease out a little bit of the why why people hang around. In relation to sort of your your business as running the business. You mentioned you do a lot of life insurance. Now, that’s not something that a lot of practices are a gung ho for. For how are you rolling that out? Is it is it standalone or is it part of an overall package and and is there any, I suppose advice or tips you’ve got for the insurance out there? Good or bad?

Aimee Lucas
Yes. So insurance, it’s been a sticking point, definitely for the business, but it’s something our plan is really feel strongly needs to be incorporated in advance. Ice pieces. So it’s very difficult to scope it out knowingly, when you know, it probably needs to be reviewed quite quite frequently, every couple of years, at least we review for ongoing clients. Definitely the process for new applications is quite difficult. Pre assessments is something that we’ve reviewed over and over and over the last few years, we have a very thorough template for our pre assessments for insurance applications that we have the clients fill in in advance, we get the insurance to review in advance. And there’s always I would say, nine out of 10 times, there’s just something that pops its head up put through the underwriting process that no one expected, sometimes the client doesn’t even have a memory of something that’s happened because it’s so long ago. So our insurance that we use, they’re quite supportive. But there’s always a bit of a delay with our insurance files, unfortunately.

Andrew Rocks
Oh, that’s all right. And look, it’s it’s, it’s good that, you know, that you are looking at holistically at that, at that particular facet. And you did mention you your advisors are passionate about it, I think it’s the way they’re wired to offer estate planning or referrals out to an estate planning business.

Aimee Lucas
Yep. So we actually refer out estate planning, we have several connections with local solicitors. So we use Howard Andrews in July, we use succession succession legal, they’re actually just a couple blocks up the street, we use a spire who we’ve recently connected with. So we really like to have a variety of different solicitors because everyone’s needs are different each. Each solicitor has a different area they focus in so we like to have a broad abroad connection with different practices that we can send clients out to, and trust that they’re gonna be taken care of.

Andrew Rocks
And the passion is obvious in your voice. Can I ask them? How are you guys licensed?

Aimee Lucas
So we’re licensed through a&p. Okay.

Andrew Rocks
And have you been with them for a long time or in a short time?

Aimee Lucas
A very long time. So Peter, originally the practice principle, he went from GPIO. So back in the GPIO days, obviously, not very familiar for myself, but GPIO over to a MP. And that was about 22 years ago, I believe. So we’ve been with a MP that that whole ride that whole time.

Andrew Rocks
Perfect. And when we’re not when you’re talking about the advice, delivery, we spoke, you know, just about life insurance, then how do you manage the investments? Do you have an SMA or an MDA? What’s the philosophy for your group on managing investment? Or is it just a free for all? Oh, I

Aimee Lucas
wouldn’t say it’s a free for all, we have been looking into SMHS. For the clients benefit and efficiency purposes, we’ve been working with investments really closely and probably getting down that pathway pretty quickly. But at the moment, we have a monthly investment committee meeting where the planners sit on, we often invite externals to join that meeting so that we can get an A perspective and see where they’re at. And we use a range of managed funds. And we outsource to shore and partners for our share purchases as well. So a bit of a variety. Some of the clients, we also put on a just a simple index funds, just a mix so that we don’t have to actively manage them so much. But definitely heading down that SMA pathway that I know a lot of practices have done.

Andrew Rocks
Absolutely. And look, that’s all part of efficiency for the client and efficiency for the practice. Because last time we got clients clients like paying fees, but they weren’t paying it for the bid they see. Not not not not not the inefficiencies of a practice, right. So definitely. And a bit about your tech stack. What’s the technology that you guys use to deliver advice?

Aimee Lucas
So we actually were on coin and right up until the end, and I’m not sure if coin

Andrew Rocks
few people listening today weren’t born when coin started, but but but I’ve used coin before as well. So it’s okay.

Aimee Lucas
I was very used to it, obviously, you know, 10 years or so in the practice using coin. But Jay and I did a lot of due diligence around where to move after that we met with a lot of different providers to see where the business would sit with our tech and eventually we landed on fin 365. We’ve moved over to fin 365 And for our CRM, revenue management, and then we’re still using x plan obviously for our advice preparation. So our Power Plan is predominantly use x plan. And we use fin 365 Which which has worked really well for us well really enjoying fin 3650 Shout

Andrew Rocks
out to the fin 365 people and you will practice is it do you do you? Do you do? Are you multi disciplined at all? Do you do debt? Do you do accounting or is that referred out?

Aimee Lucas
We refer out at the moment so we refer out for lending estate planning, obviously share broking. So at the moment we just focus on the finance You’re planning aspect and make sure those connections in the community are really good to push clients out to when needed,

Andrew Rocks
given, given where you guys are at in our previous conversations, is there any one of those disciplines that you would consider bringing in house? If the opportunity arose?

Aimee Lucas
Absolutely at J. Peter and I have been in a lot of discussions the past 18 months around accounting practices, around lending practices, and also financial planning practices. So we feel were in a really good position to start looking at acquisitions of those kinds of practices.

Andrew Rocks
In saying that, do with the way in which you run the business of the business? Do you guys have a business coach? Or what’s the sort of rhythm or hair? Is there any philosophies that you employ to run the business because you are the tether between I describe the back office, the front office, the clients, the experience, is there anything that you use,

Aimee Lucas
and we don’t have a business coach or we don’t have a system as such that we use for that sort of stuff, it really is probably a bit of a key person role that I’m running at the moment between keeping the practice the compliance, the staffing, keeping it all all held together at the moment.

Andrew Rocks
And you touched on key person you touched on staffing. Right now the hottest, the hottest topic in not just financial planning, but everything in Australia is talent. We’re a people business, that people cost money, and we’ve got to, we’ve got to deploy them effectively. So what I would like to ask is why people join Burke Britton, why people stay, and you’ve got a few tenured people there. And what your plan is, as the practice manager to ensure that the growth is evenly spread in your talent, from your eyes all the way through to your most recent recruit?

Aimee Lucas
Yes, sir. Heavy question, every question. We do, we do have some long tenured staff members. But I think we can honestly say we’ve had quite a high turnover. Also, in the past four or five years, I think, given the industry, the level of compliance, the work that sits behind you advertise it as as an administrator coming on board, and they don’t realize what’s what’s hit them in the back office, often, because it’s, it’s such a deep industry that you picture, creating a few forms, but it’s really about the relationships. So for us, we like to focus on the person more than the certificates or education that they’ve received. And that’s held us in steadfast. So Ben and delta, for example, both being current ARS have come from, right through administration, they’ve touched on power planning, and moving into their AR roles has really given them the grounding for the role they’re in now, so that they’ve learned the business from the ground up. So so they’re the type of people that we’re looking for.

Andrew Rocks
So just just just confirming, to have your AR spin, and delta didn’t start as as they started, in which particular role in the organization,

Aimee Lucas
just straight administration. So delta has been with us, I think it’s coming up 17 years, actually, Delta has started in their office as well say we’ve been out we do make that very clear. When staff come on board, you know, we want someone who wants to be involved in the whole practice, not just walk into a seat as an AR, and be handed a bunch of clients, we want the knowledge of the practice, we want them to know the why and the how and, and everything in between that as a small practice, and, and being a small practice, you have to know what happens everywhere, because there’s often sidesteps short term or long term into different roles that you’re going to need to be across if you want to succeed in the business.

Andrew Rocks
And you mentioned one thing and first of all, don’t beat yourself up over the last couple of years. There was a particular a pandemic that happened hit Victoria harder than most. So there’s been it’s been a tough gig. The the the thing you’ve highlighted, which is that, that administration and financial planning is is way more than administration generally, where you have to have a deep, empathetic knowledge of the clients, you have to have relationship skills as well. Is there anything that you do when you’re bringing those team members through or you you’d like the industry to do to help that segment of the business and what I bring that up is that good planners are only as good as the people around him.

Aimee Lucas
Definitely, I think there’s enough support for the administration side in financial planning. So I as obviously get a lot of support with PD days, CPD learning knowledge. For us as a back office, there’s not a lot of that happening. Hence while went out and found my own PDS like landmark initial on front, so I saw a lot of that for myself and my own growth. A lot of it is just on the ground learning For our team to be honest, because systems and processes change so often and compliance changes so often, that you’re gonna have a process manual for everything. But, you know, you could have a staff member come in next week, and the process has changed due to due to something that’s happened. So a lot of it is on the ground learning, which I think can be a big challenge for people. But we’re only open to suggestions and ideas for professional development, either from our licensee or outside of outside of that, we’re very open to saying yes to supporting our staff, either professionally or personally, with any courses or any days they want to go and do.

Andrew Rocks
Great, first of all, great that second anecdotal, I suppose, as part of being part of ensemble. I was having a chat to Emily the other day, who’s sort of the Head of Community and that sentiment of Is there a place for people to learn peer to peer learning or getting resources who aren’t a ours? It just is an avalanche. We’re finding that people are reaching out to Emily say, hey, look, I’m not on the five, but I’ve been in this practice for 15 years, can I join the business? And if I do, where do I go? So we definitely do want the entire sort of ecosystem to be part of ensemble, and if you’re out there listening, and you’re either logging in as your advisor, right, um, feel free to to reach out, you know, this is this is part of, of us, trying to build the positive evolution of financial advisors via positive evolution of their of their practices. And there’s probably a big push for, for a bit more support around practice managers. As you said, it’s, there’s a real people component of, of getting this right, and we’re probably under done because we’re so focused on compliance. In financial services, we’re probably under done on people’s skills, as far as you know, compared to other industries. So when a quick question I was going to ask is when? When COVID happened, and you guys all work from home? What’s the bounce back? Been? I mean, you’re you’re not regional, but you’re, you’re not you’re not in the city of Melbourne, a, your team now all back in the office. So they hybrid? Where do you sit now? And what’s your philosophy?

Aimee Lucas
Summary, when COVID happened, we picked up our laptop, so we went home. Just like many other practices, we have, we have encouraged that split of in the office and working from home since then. So the flexibility of being able to work from home and come in the next day has been amazing for our staff. So we’ve really encouraged that being in julong, I thought a lot of clients would want to pick up the in person appointments after COVID restrictions were relaxed, but everyone loves zoom. You know, I think maybe one in two appointments as skipped, and they’ve taken a zoom now. So it’s been a real efficiency driver for us as well, which has been fantastic. It’s meant that, you know, we’ve been able to focus on other things. So I know that it was quite a turning point for a lot of people COVID. For the business, we just did not slow down, we picked up new clients, with the staff push through, you know, we worked from home, we did lots of fun stuff for our staff working from home. So we sent out the food boxes so that they couldn’t cook their meals and we’re all cooking the same meal. Even though we’re all at our own homes. I sent out you know, fun little potty packs so that they had something to do on the weekends with their kids. We tried to really keep that up. We also did. This is probably a horror one for some of the staff, we did exercise classes, we hired a painting trainer, and we’d be all up at 730 in the morning on Zoom working out together. I don’t know if that’s given anyone PTSD. But you know, it was funny, we all laugh about it. We’ve got some great screenshots of the staff all in their gym clothes in the morning before work. So I mean, you know, we had to adapt and we really did adapt.

Andrew Rocks
I’m picturing fluro tights and leg warmers for one week, and then you’re sending him a a 5000 calories, slow roast pack on the weekend. So now it definitely was the thing that led me to a question of how do you how do you guys have fun so So I won that one back with York with Bert Britton, do you guys set quarterly goals, annual goals? What’s the way in which you guys set your company goals and how do you articulate and share that journey with your team?

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, at the moment, we do have one on one catch ups with our staff to review their progress generally they’re held quarterly. So we like to stay really close touch with our staff members one on one. We have a bit of a barley challenge with their with their new business upfront goal. That’s dollar base that we’re trying to hit at the end of financial year and we’ll all head off to Bali so we’ve got some fun why Well, it’s drawn out with some beer bottles and bintang bottles that we’re filling up each month, we review how the new business has gone pear platter and as a team as a title, so we like to keep it pretty fun and light hearted. And, and it gets everyone involved in the business goal at the end of the day.

Andrew Rocks
And that’s brilliant, by the way, because it’s visual. And it’s, it’s bringing people together and look like, I mean, it’s, it’s now we’re in the fourth month of the year, how are you guys going up? Let’s go public.

Aimee Lucas
We’re tracking not too bad. We’ve got some high goals. But I think it’s not the goal. That’s such the focus for everyone. It’s, it’s the team, Team value around that goal. And every month, we all you know, sit with bated breath as we update our whiteboard. And, you know, everyone’s jarring each other about where they’re at or where they’re heading. And, you know, they’re all, you know, saying I’ve got this in the pipeline, it’s gonna happen next month, so I’m counting it already. You know, it’s a it’s a bit of fun. But that serious note is the end goal. That’s a business goal really at the end of the day. And

Andrew Rocks
cool as it’s the first time you’ve done this sort of exercise on the first time after COVID. It’s the

Aimee Lucas
first time after COVID, since it’s something that was put together as Yeah, a bit of a light hearted goal amongst the team. Besides that, we really enjoy catching up together. So I’ll book I tried to do something once a month as a team. So I like to really mix it up. So last month was 10 pin balling, we’ve done private Bikram brick, big room, yoga, Pilates classes together, all sorts of stuff, you know, sometimes someone will mention a book of we’ve all got to read the book by the end of next month. So we all like to have a bit of input, we sit around and have lunch together at the end of each man. Its biggest most he can’t hide from that sort of stuff. So everyone that’s here is really involved in that, that culture of getting to know each other and getting along.

Andrew Rocks
And look, the tenures speak for themselves now, just getting a feel for having look at your overall business. Quite often, you know why people join a practice is not why they they stay. And there’s a whole range of reasons why people stay in and it could be going to Bali, but it could also be things such as you know, are you charitable? What are you giving back? Etc? Is there any that does Burke Britton? Are they involved in charitable pursuits, or? Or any of those kinds of arrangements? And if so, do you involve your team in any way?

Aimee Lucas
We do, we have some really close relationships with some community community areas. So one of our main areas of charitable giving is future generations donation program. So that is 1% of sub shares that clients hold. Instead of paying fund managers and paying the bills on their end, it’s actually donated back to local charities and us and our clients and our staff, we get to decide where those funds are dispersed. So last year, for example, we had over $150,000 in funds. And we go out to our clients and say, Who would you like to nominate? Who should we look at to provide those funds to so some local ones were provided up kids plus Foundation, julong. Moms, we have julong youth and get h men. So we have a lot of connections with those areas, and we love to support them. So we’ll go to their lunches, their golf days, we volunteered at julabo moms, you know, I’ve had Peter and Jay packing baby clothes on a Friday afternoon, and learning about how important supporting children and young families in Geelong is. So we try to involve the staff in that as much as possible. We help it the Bunnings Lions Club, you know, barbecuing, it’s all sorts of things.

Andrew Rocks
I’m just going to, I suppose Can you repeat how you do that? So 1% of of what the billable fees that would otherwise go to your practice gets apportioned on your p&l into a charitable foundation. Is that correct?

Aimee Lucas
No quiet. So not our personal practice, we wouldn’t be taking the 1% It would be the future generation fund got it. So they actually donate that back. And due to our holdings and the size of our holdings, we get to nominate so they do have some charities on their list who do receive funds. But being being quite a large practice we get to decide. So that’s I think we’re in our fifth or sixth year now of getting to be part of that program. And it’s amazing. We’ve sponsored a guide dog, you know, we took a guide dog all the way through for about a year and he’s now he’s now supporting someone that needs a guide dog so it’s been amazing.

Andrew Rocks
I am you’ve got 12 people in your practice and you gave away $150,000 Last year that’s that’s a really really it’s really positive and i i Just waded through your website and you’ve got it running total of $550,000 in charitable giving their rich, which is the real deal, right? So it’s it goes to show you. So if you’re out there and and you’re looking for a role model on a on a not just a per capita, but an absolute basis, and even a methodology of giving, some people want to give, but it just gets complicated and how they do it. It sounds like the method that you’ve that you’ve established seems to be sustainable, and material as well. So well done, well done to you. And what, look, I know that you’re at, you’re in a big licensee, and that licensee has lots of training and development for their, for their advisors and whatnot, is there any other sort of training points that that you put in place in your business,

Aimee Lucas
I’m probably just the main CPD that the plan is participate in at the moment. So outside of that, we encourage them to keep their eye open for any personal development that they’d like to do as well. We have monthly planning meetings where the four of them catch up and discuss strategy and investment options as well. So we’re, obviously we’ve been quiet in our own world for quite a long time. Hence, in the last couple of years, we’ve tried to try to move into the growth phase and open, open our eyes and our doors and really look at now and see what’s out there for the team and for the business.

Andrew Rocks
So going into a growth phase is definitely one thing saying you heard, but do you do you believe that you’ve built the platform right now, so that you can plug in whether it be new advisors or new disciplines or new practices? What What have you built that you think, is sustainable? And, and or have you got a little way to go on that?

Aimee Lucas
I think I think we’re ready. Yeah, I think we’re very ready. We’ve got the tech, we’ve got the tech face down. Pat, we’ve got the staffing down, Pat, we’ve got the revenue management down pat, the culture is just sitting at such a fantastic level, we’re ready for anyone to enter enjoy and from administration, right up to AR level P why candidates, acquisitions of other businesses, you know, we’re really poised and we’re so open for it as well, you know, we’re not worried about a certain area that we need to improve on. We’re just we’re open, willing and ready.

Andrew Rocks
And you’ve got history and doing it right. So Ben and delta have come through their hours now. And they’ve come through that. And you mentioned P What have you got any people in the py program currently,

Aimee Lucas
we do we have che che is running through his py. So he’s actually looking to finish that up hopefully a little bit earlier. But at the moment, he is on track for March next year. And and that’s been a big part of our succession plan as well. So Peter, I don’t think he’d mind me saying he’s looking into his final years as a AR and as a financial planner. He’s been in the business many many years and he’s been part of a succession plan the business has had going for probably six or seven years now. So that that’s been a really big piece for Ben and delta succeeding under Peter sharing his clients and naturally the growth of that has seen as see how successful that is. And we’re doing the same thing with Che so che is now starting to succeed under Jay. And that’s going to seek Jay freed up to spend more time on the practice instead of in practice

Andrew Rocks
it cool and dumb if I was to come in, so what’s your recruitment process? So So given that it’s very family focused as far as the collective being the family and the tenure? Where do you currently get your your people from?

Aimee Lucas
We’ve we’ve tried a lot of different methods in attracting new staff we’ve done everything from seek to Deakin Uni advertising through Deakin Uni. Probably our most most successful method, though, is personalities and knowing someone so someone’s come from a second or third party that’s referred them. So personal references is a big one for us. Ben, for example, actually grew up in Horsham where Peter grew up, so sort of a third party connection of knowing each other that way. And then delta was actually hired because someone knew of her and knew she was looking for some work. So it’s really been a connection actually, myself, I actually came because my friend was working here at the time, and she referred me so you still have to go through the interview process, you have to check all the boxes, you have to be aligned with the business’s philosophies or where we’re heading. But for us, the successful method has been references.

Andrew Rocks
And given that you’ve worked with the principles very closely for the last decade, what’s been the what’s been the biggest, the biggest error or the biggest lesson that you’ve learned when you went down a rabbit hole incorrectly and what did you do to make sure you didn’t do it again? Yeah,

Aimee Lucas
I think there’s probably a couple of examples but probably More than a couple examples, if I’m being honest

Andrew Rocks
with you, it’s gonna be a three hour podcast, Aimee said we just did, we can just truncate that it’d be great.

Aimee Lucas
I think, can I give a specific example? Is that, okay?

Andrew Rocks
Whatever you want, I mean, but we never edit these things.

Aimee Lucas
I think one main example is our offshore team. So we we saw other practices, and we saw during COVID, that offshore was a fantastic, and a fantastic path to go down at looking at support, either back end, having offshore resources. And we pushed, we pushed down that pathway for quite a while before we realized it actually just didn’t align with where the business was headed in the next couple of years. So we called it at the end of the day, we move back onshore, we hired in house admin support. And you know, it’s probably just a lesson that you don’t have to hang on to something for so long. If it’s not working, it’s okay to call it and that goes all the way from tech stacks to staffing to, you know, our processes and systems. If it’s not working. Yes, you want to give it a bit of a try for a while, you want to try and pivot and tweak what you can. But at the end of the day, if it’s not right for the staff or the practice, then it’s okay to make a decision to move in a different way.

Andrew Rocks
Oh, yeah. And it’s the timings everything. Right. So the if you look at the last 10 years, there’s been there’s been external factors that have meant people moving in one way or the other, who would have thought that we’d have pretty well, no unemployment. So, so getting people now is tough going. And also, you mentioned you did some work with PwC, at the beginning of this podcast, and without knowing their program, that would have been very much what are you guys good at? Have you priced and appropriately? You know, so, like most practices, you probably have reduced the actual numbers of clients over the last five or six years, would that be right?

Aimee Lucas
It’s correct. Yes. hit the nail on the head.

Andrew Rocks
Yeah. So so if you’ve got, you know, when you actually do that exercise, and you get your pricing correct, and, you know, right up to you guys are charging for initial appointments, then you may not need as bigger engine to serve as the the engaged clients, which is exactly the ones you want. But now, you’ve actually done all of that you flesh that through, now’s the time to grow. Again, I think that’s a consistent theme with a lot of practices. And there’s literally no competition, because there’s so few people giving advice. And there’s so many good advice givers in Australia running in good practices. That doesn’t work. Now, in saying that, I would love to hear you’ve sort of intimated a few things. In relation to practice management. Administration, you’ve sort of insinuated that there’s a bit of a lack of, of industry support there. And we’re hoping it ensemble that we’re beginning to bridge that, but what’s your vision of the future of practices, and in particular, the role of the practice manager or the general manager? Yes,

Aimee Lucas
I think for practices in general, I think it’s so different to how it was 10 1215 years ago, where it was more centralized around that one planner, and they pushed out anything from their end, whereas now we’re really seeing the team culture and the clients wanting to be able to access an answer or a staff member anytime they need to. So I’m seeing practices down down the track more head towards more of a whole team approach, rather than just an individualized, what does that mean? So being able to call and talk to anyone, so relationships are huge, huge, not just for us, but I’m sure many other practices do the relationship, if you don’t have a great relationship with your team and with your clients, you know, you’re not gonna go anywhere, you’re gonna sit and probably fail at the end of the day. So for us, I’m seeing practices probably continued to reinforce their back office more than they ever have in the past. So ensuring that they’re poised with technology, it personal development, because the back office, I think, is really coming to the forefront almost and nowadays, and planners, I think planners and practice principals and business owners are seeing if our back office isn’t ready to go and getting what they need. It’s just not going to click, it’s not going to work for anyone. So I think practice managers almost are going to become redundant. So as much as I hate to say it, I would love to see my role not needed. So like I said earlier, being a key person, it’s fantastic to be able to have a knowledge of everything across the practice. However, it’s a dangerous, dangerous position for the practice. So I think practice managers making myself redundant, really shows that I’ve done my job well, because the team’s humming, the compliance and systems are in place, and I really don’t have to worry about stepping in all the time and and being there.

Andrew Rocks
Well, I think having determined urgency is probably going to We’d completely appropriate I think, I think the hat building in a redundancy is probably the correct terminology. There’s probably always, always a role for someone to implement the policy and procedures that you guys have put in place and continue to innovate that. But you’re correct this this, you know, I prefer to steal a phrase from the recent Formula One in Melbourne. If you’re, if you don’t have your back office humming Well, well, the driver comes from the pits, and it takes him four minutes or her four minutes to drive off again, you probably not in the game. So. So I think that and that also is, you know, I’m seeing a more of a flattening of renumeration, as well, I’m seeing the gap between what the advisors are being reimagined and their team moving more and making more of an alignment than ever did. For me, I think that reflects the fact that, that there’s an acknowledgement from the IRS that it takes two to tango, or three or four, etc. And what would be so, you know, I suppose that the conundrum I’ve got when I’m chatting to yourself, as you’ve built a business, it’s it’s, you’ve got lots of long term tenured people you have bought people through, and you’ve now in 2023, said, we’re ready for growth, you know, we’re ready for growth. And, and is the why is that is that because, you know, part of a succession sort of plan is that you need to grow the business bigger, so that the people, there’s more opportunities internally is that is that the philosophy?

Aimee Lucas
Yeah, that’s, that’s probably about it. So so we were constantly looking for ways to grow the individuals in the business. So we’re very, very open with the opportunities for our staff members, if you come in and you do six months admin, and you decide you love paraplanning, we want that growth to be there and to have that you need the support of other team members. So we’re really poised to let anyone move in any direction that they really want. But to do that, you have to have a great structure in place. And I’d have a great, a great team around you who are willing to move sideways or up or down or, or wherever they want to go.

Andrew Rocks
And you mentioned earlier, you’d be open to taking people into your team or alternatively, you know, working with a like minded practice. Is that is that practice or that target? Or ideal scenarios that are geographically located in and around julong? Or are you open minded,

Aimee Lucas
we’re very open minded. COVID has shown us that working remotely and working at distances is fine. We actually have a service office in Shepparton, as well. So that’s been no problem. Our clients, we head up whenever we need to book a few days, see the clients I’ve been shepherding. So that’s three hours down the highway, we really haven’t haven’t seen an impact of COVID on that at all. So we’re really open to any location, any type of business. Like I said, we’re poised for py candidates in particular, as Peter and Jay continued to succeed up or into different areas of the business and, and probably we’re starting to think and talk about Ben and delta doing the same thing. So where do they really want to set up to 10 years of being in the business do they want to have a certain type of client that they only ever see or they’re more interested in taking on Peter and Jays clients because of the family connections? So we’re ready to bring those py candidates in and help us when we acquire other practices and bring on new clients?

Andrew Rocks
The bit of love about when you talk is it’s always we it’s always this, you, you really have you have a sense of of ownership of the direction of the business, which is exactly what I’d expect from from from a highly motivated sort of practice manager or general manager of, of the group. Well, I think, I think you’ve done pretty well for your first podcast congrat, congratulations. We at the takeout for me is that you are open for people to join you in the py. Okay. And you’ve done it before. And those people have stayed and then flourished and you’re now talking about them becoming significant pillars of the business. So there’s a track record there are they there’s a real sort of community so if you’re someone who values, your workmates and wants to help build that that relationship with your workmates on a social that, then you’re definitely the company for them. And finally, you very confident you’re very confident about the fact you’ve got the platform for you know, you’ve got the tech platform, you’re clearly comfortable with your licensing, you’re investigating the investment, philosophy and you’re open minded to accounting or mortgage broking joint ventures, so I hope the next 12 years I think they’re going to be a little bit more exciting than the last 12 I think is my gut feel.

Aimee Lucas
I think so. Yes. Yeah, we’ve definitely we’ve we’ve left compliance behind us where we’re not focusing on, you know, all of the things that have happened in the past 1012 years, we’re ready to move forward. We’re excited. We’re all on board. We’re all aligned and ready, ready for this next phase of the business. So, like all of the items, you just said, we’re good to go where where can you come at us?

Andrew Rocks
And I asked you before the session, could you name five practice managers who you look up to and you’d like a name one or two. So if you’re a practice manager, or you’re aspiring to be one and you’re listening to this, you’ve probably now got another one to add to the collection. And with that, I’d like to thank you for being on the engine room today. Aimee and have a great day.

Aimee Lucas
Thank you, Andrew. Thanks for having me.